View Poll Results: What should we do?

Voters
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  • Nothing, Cat is out of the bag and this is the cost of our "freedom"

    16 10.26%
  • Prison Time for gun owners who lose or have their gun stolen

    30 19.23%
  • Background checks and a waiting period for 100% of transactions

    119 76.28%
  • No semiautomatic anythings...

    60 38.46%
  • Tax gun sales with additional fee to go to mental health

    70 44.87%
  • Register ALL firearms and require insurance (car analogy)

    101 64.74%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I actually think Trump would suggest something like that. He is not really pro gun.

    I do not think that even the #forevertrumpers would jump onboard surrendering their guns just because their orange god commanded it.
    Feb 2017, one of his first fucking actions flies in the face of that assertion and is applicable to everything we are talking about.
    Damn peoples memories are short

    President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

    The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

    Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database.

    President Barack Obama recommended the now-nullified regulation in a 2013 memo following the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, which left 20 first graders and six others dead. The measure sought to block some people with severe mental health problems from buying guns.


    The original rule was hotly contested by gun rights advocates who said it infringed on Americans’ Second Amendment rights. Gun control advocates, however, praised the rule for curbing the availability of firearms to those who may not use them with the right intentions.

    Both the House and Senate last week passed the new bill, H.J. Res 40, revoking the Obama-era regulation.

    Trump signed the bill into law without a photo op or fanfare. The president welcomed cameras into the oval office Tuesday for the signing of other executive orders and bills. News that the president signed the bill was tucked at the bottom of a White House email alerting press to other legislation signed by the president.

    The National Rifle Association “applauded” Trump’s action. Chris Cox, NRA-ILA executive director, said the move “marks a new era for law-abiding gun owners, as we now have a president who respects and supports our arms.”

    Everytown For Gun Safety President John Feinblatt said he expected more gun control rollbacks from the Trump administration. In a statement to NBC News, he called the action "just the first item on the gun lobby’s wish list" and accused the National Rifle Association of "pushing more guns, for more people, in more places."

    Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., a leading gun control advocate in Congress, called out Republicans over the move.

    "Republicans always say we don’t need new gun laws, we just need to enforce the laws already on the books. But the bill signed into law today undermines enforcement of existing laws that Congress passed to make sure the background check system had complete information," he said in an emailed statement.

  2. #752
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    We have 10x more people
    So we have 10 times as many school children, church goers, grocery buyers, movie watchers, concert attendees who shouldn't be getting shot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  3. #753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    About 200 posts ago I posted that I support and like Australia's system. I'm a gun owner living in the US. There's more people like me. About 250 posts ago, I mentioned that one of the largest roadblocks to change is the generalizations from both sides and that we need to organize like thinkers in the middle. I was chastised as a hypocrite because I own guns. Really felt like that poster was saying my opinion didn't matter because I'm a gun owner. I guess we could just rely on Trump for a solution. His admin did ban bumpstops... Just a thought.
    I don't consider you a hypocrite because you own guns. You're a statistical outlier. Any gun confiscation is a complete non-starter for most of the gun-owning public.

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    I was pointing out the stupidity of Bobby stupid, the definition of tgr tryhard dumbfuck
    I enjoy the mental real estate I occupy in your brain. It's apparent that I'm in a good part of town, from the childish comments you make.
    "I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I think there's something to be said for that" -One For The Road

    Brain dead and made of money.

  5. #755
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    If only there was something we could do...

    Fuck the gun owning public. They’re the minority and the majority of the public wants to severely restrict firearm access. Again, FUCK THE GUN OWNING PUBLIC. Your hobby and cosplay and fever dreams of the government/bogeyman coming to get you does not override the rational fear that unarmed citizens feel on a daily basis.

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Never going to happen unless Trump himself suggests it.
    Cmon man! Bullshit. He is not that powerful. Y’all need to stop the thinking that he is.
    The gun nuts are not going to listen to anyone. Nobody gets between them and their guns.
    "boobs just make the world better really" - Woodsy

  7. #757
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    "Joe Garcia, the husband of Irma Garcia, one of two teachers shot and killed in Uvalde, TX on Tuesday, has reportedly suffered a fatal heart attack. Joe and Irma were high school sweethearts and married 24 years. They leave behind four children," Zuniga's tweet said.

    https://www.newsweek.com/husband-uva...attack-1710587
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    About 200 posts ago I posted that I support and like Australia's system. I'm a gun owner living in the US. There's more people like me. About 250 posts ago, I mentioned that one of the largest roadblocks to change is the generalizations from both sides and that we need to organize like thinkers in the middle. I was chastised as a hypocrite because I own guns. Really felt like that poster was saying my opinion didn't matter because I'm a gun owner. I guess we could just rely on Trump for a solution. His admin did ban bumpstops... Just a thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazderati View Post
    You keep trying to reframe the situation. It's not about your current hoard. It's not about a ban. It's about you and others like you actively supporting the gun lobby by buying new shit. And then you're like 'but I write letters so I'm doing my part.' Your money moves the needle way more than your letters.
    ...

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    About 200 posts ago I posted that I support and like Australia's system. I'm a gun owner living in the US. There's more people like me. About 250 posts ago, I mentioned that one of the largest roadblocks to change is the generalizations from both sides and that we need to organize like thinkers in the middle. I was chastised as a hypocrite because I own guns. Really felt like that poster was saying my opinion didn't matter because I'm a gun owner. I guess we could just rely on Trump for a solution. His admin did ban bumpstops... Just a thought.
    you aren’t wrong, but as long as Leroy and Bobby Stupid continue to speak wrongly in the name of all gun owners what we gonna do? Like I posted the gun nuts are ~10% or less of adults.

  10. #760
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    with regard to law enforcement, I believe current training Greatly emphasized officer safety, and 'securing the scene' and when faced with weaponry, Waiting for reinforcements And superior firepower - no heroics.

    while I do not agree with it, and my experience has been Bad, I understand how many of the people now being drawn to law enforcement would act in this way - Just following their training --

    ( a few years ago, in an unexpected conversation with a novice officer following an incident that had been at the verge of going Very Badly, my comment to the novice officer was,
    ' I hope you learned something '

    The officer responded,
    ' I would do exactly the same thing again. '

    escalate the conflict. use force. (2018)


    local law enforcement did exactly what they were trained to do.

    Yes, it is a very bad look --


    tj

  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiJ View Post
    with regard to law enforcement, I believe current training Greatly emphasized officer safety, and 'securing the scene' and when faced with weaponry, Waiting for reinforcements And superior firepower - no heroics
    Not. For. Active. Shooters.

    This has been mentioned repeatedly. The response for an active shooter is IMMEDIATELY ATTACK: run towards the sounds of gunfire and eliminate the threat. This change came in 1999 after Columbine where "secure the scene and wait" got a ton of kids hurt and killed while the killers kept killing.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    Agreed. We don't really know the Australia solution won't scale to the U.S.'s parameters. It's a bit of a cop out to say it won't work here.
    I'm not saying it won't work, but it's naive to deny that scale does not create serious challenges with implementation. Let's start with the low-hanging fruit first--21+ to purchase, licensing, registration, etc. Going straight to mass confiscation seems likely to generate serious blowback and go nowhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzworthy View Post
    Cmon man! Bullshit. He is not that powerful. Y’all need to stop the thinking that he is.
    The gun nuts are not going to listen to anyone. Nobody gets between them and their guns.
    2019 bump stock ban suggests otherwise.

  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    Because nobody with any real power wants to.
    That's putting the heelpiece on the front of the ski.

    The Gun Issue has been developed into yet another powerful wedge mechanism that drives not only division, but contributions from passionate minority factions.

    So count it among abortion, race and religion as a way for manipulative pseudopoliticians to get power.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    I'm not saying it won't work, but it's naive to deny that scale does not create serious challenges with implementation. Let's start with the low-hanging fruit first--21+ to purchase, licensing, registration, etc. Going straight to mass confiscation seems likely to generate serious blowback and go nowhere.
    Totally agree. I don't know if Australians are culturally similar to citizens of the US. Meaning, was there the same obsession with guns that a significant portion of the US population has?
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  15. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ski View Post
    Yup, as is my case. I have guns for the eventual collapse of Murican society, but I would willing turn them in if it was National policy
    Same. Until someone stops the wholesale slaughter of people in downtown St Louis don’t ask me to go help people with their medicare and medicaid without worrying about my safety.

    I’ve actually stopped going down there and helping the low income beneficiaries. I didn’t like feeling like I needed a gun 1500 appointments and I saw enough shit to either quit, or put a gun in my bag. So I quit and sold most of what I had.

    I would really, really like to feel like everyone didn’t have a fucking gun in their car. But they do.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  16. #766
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    Dantheman, how does that minor action suggest he would do something drastic? Read Woodsy's post above or the heritage foundation report:

    https://www.heritage.org/firearms/co...t-trump-so-far
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  17. #767
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    the Question I do have is how was the school Safety Officer not in a position to defend the school - That is that officer's job.

    Not to pursue an assailant in the neighborhood - secure and defend the school ;

    when the call came that drew the school safety officer away, that school should have gone to LOCK-DOWN until the threat was gone. !!!


    f* tj

  18. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    it's naive to deny that scale does not create serious challenges with implementation. Let's start with the low-hanging fruit first--21+ to purchase, licensing, registration, etc. Going straight to mass confiscation seems likely to generate serious blowback and go nowhere..
    Low hanging fruit. Interesting terminology for something that can't seem to get done.
    "I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I think there's something to be said for that" -One For The Road

    Brain dead and made of money.

  19. #769
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I actually think Trump would suggest something like that. He is not really pro gun.

    I do not think that even the #forevertrumpers would jump onboard surrendering their guns just because their orange god commanded it.
    They would deny he said it.

  20. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    I'm not saying it won't work, but it's naive to deny that scale does not create serious challenges with implementation. Let's start with the low-hanging fruit first--21+ to purchase, licensing, registration, etc. Going straight to mass confiscation seems likely to generate serious blowback and go nowhere.



    2019 bump stock ban suggests otherwise.
    Really reaching there Dan

  21. #771
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I am a huge mental health advocate. It is under funded in our society. Improving this priority would reduce gun deaths significantly, but mostly in terms of suicidality. Mental health is horrifically misunderstood in terms of gun crime.

    I don't think that mental health is the issue in this specific circumstance, but we don't know and may never know in this specific incident.

    Medicalizing criminality is a horrific mistake.

    There exists diagnostic boxes into which we can put the fractional (but socially significant) percentage of humanity that will be inevitably and incorrigibly violent, but it isn't because they are ill in the same way that someone with PTSD or depression or ADD or OCD are ill (and each of these is very different).

    Stigma is a problem, because though certain affective (eg schizophrenia) and mood (eg bipolar) disorders seem to make up roughly 10% of murderers when looking at older datasets (a disproportionate amount vs the general population), actually very few people who have those disorders commit murder. This particular phenomenon of statistics is hard to parse for the public/policy makers and hard to address for clinicians. To say this differently, someone who is schizophrenic might have 20x the chance of being a murderer vs average, thus explaining overrepresentation among murderers, but the chance that someone with schizophrenia commits murder in their life is <0.1%!!!

    When you are talking about diagnosis that actually do present a significant risk of murder, these people don't need to pop a pill. Substance abuse disorders correlate with crime, but that is a highly complex topic and is often comorbid with other issues. Other people have certain types of personality disorders such as antisocial or borderline often only recognized only after the fact, and the mechanisms vary too. The few who are violently psychotic or impassionately enraged tend to target those personally close to them (eg DV) and act on different impulses than someone who is amoral like an Antisocial. Antisocials are basically untreatable, amoral, and though there is a distinction between that personality disorder and psychopathy, the overlap is nearly complete. These people almost always end up in the criminal justice system and usually prison, but sometimes they kill (many) before landing there. Flagging them earlier is the only intervention I can think of, and fraught. Failure to intervene despite spotting the problem is another issue (eg the Aurora theater shooter).

    "Support Mental Health" and "Mental Health Awareness" tropes, whether noble or as an excuse, probably have little overlap on functional interventions here.
    American Psychiatric Association Article: Mental Illness Too Often Wrongly Associated With Gun Violence
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  22. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    I'm not saying it won't work, but it's naive to deny that scale does not create serious challenges with implementation. Let's start with the low-hanging fruit first--21+ to purchase, licensing, registration, etc. Going straight to mass confiscation seems likely to generate serious blowback and go nowhere.
    Grudgingly I'll admit that you're probably correct.

  23. #773
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
    Fuck the gun owning public. They’re the minority and the majority of the public wants to severely restrict firearm access. Again, FUCK THE GUN OWNING PUBLIC. Your hobby and cosplay and fever dreams of the government/bogeyman coming to get you does not override the rational fear that unarmed citizens feel on a daily basis.
    3% of firearms are "assault weapons". Get off your soapbox.

    You aren't even focused on the correct firearm to change gun deaths in any meaningful way. Your lack of knowledge on the subject is dreadful.

    It's pretty apparent most of you don't know the first thing about gun laws or gun ownership.
    "I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I think there's something to be said for that" -One For The Road

    Brain dead and made of money.

  24. #774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    I'm not saying it won't work, but it's naive to deny that scale does not create serious challenges with implementation. Let's start with the low-hanging fruit first--21+ to purchase, licensing, registration, etc. Going straight to mass confiscation seems likely to generate serious blowback and go nowhere.
    A problem is that there is great awareness of the huge desire frequently and loudly espoused by many to do mass confiscation, and that reasonable inches are part of an incremental strategy to reach that confiscation milestone.

    So this allows a narrative that common sense solutions should be opposed in order to delay the incremental goal of confiscation. And that "it's inevitable, so lets slow it down at every corner" narrative is heavily enable by shrill cries for confiscation by those who are also peddling small steps. That is why the right sadly won't take Feinberg's reasonable proposal seriously. But those screaming for confiscation don't care about that part of the equation, even when it means nothing gets done.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  25. #775
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    I said as much a few pages ago. Negotiation isn't a strong suit of the gun control crowd.
    "I don't pretend to have all the answers, and I think there's something to be said for that" -One For The Road

    Brain dead and made of money.

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