If only there was something we could do...

[altacoup]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/17/polit...ans/index.html

Proof that the GQP and its voters are a cancer for America. Can’t even support pathetically weak gun law.


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[Bobby Stainless]

These discussions always evolve/devolve the same way whenever someone is actually willing to take a shot at debating in favor of the "everyone should be able to carry a gun everywhere" position. It's a bunch of flawed comparison whatabouism, then cherry picked BS data points, and when all that is called out and debunked all that's left is "bla bla bla IT'S MUH RITE bla bla bla".. Been clearly explained 10000000 different ways why it's detrimental and does way more harm than good to continue to maintain MUH RITE to own a gun and bring it to McDonalds.

Ultimately though, I don't really have any dislike for BS or MTT or other IRL friends who choose to carry and play with high body count toys. .. I kinda understand their position and like all addiction disorders, this is 100% fear driven at it's core.. Fear of government, fear of other people out there in the community, etc.. I'm afraid of the possibility of a total breakdown of society, albeit temporary like the aftermath of Katrina.. So I'm not immune from it either..

That site has links to every incident. Im not sure how that is misinformation.

Addiction disorders are not 100% fear driven. What are you even talking about?

[MTT]

I would not be opposed to first time gun buyers. Having to pass a very through gun safety course prior to taking possession of a gun of any type

It would have to be government funded so it doesn’t price the poor out of gun ownership. After passing the class and a background check. National right to carry should be the law of the land.

The government federal or local does not need to know what guns who owns
There is a good reason for that

There could be some stiff penalties for allowing kid’s or unauthorized people to possess your gun. Lock them up when you’re not in control of them. The days of the shotgun or rifle in the closet or pistol in the night stand. Are over

[J. Barron DeJong]

It would have to be government funded so it doesn’t price the poor out of gun ownership.

The government should actually give you a free gun when you sign up, to make sure the poors aren’t kept from fully expressing their 2A rights. Subsidized ammo is likely appropriate as well.

[bennymac]

I would not be opposed to first time gun buyers. Having to pass a very through gun safety course prior to taking possession of a gun of any type

It would have to be government funded so it doesn’t price the poor out of gun ownership. After passing the class and a background check. National right to carry should be the law of the land.

The government federal or local does not need to know what guns who owns
There is a good reason for that

There could be some stiff penalties for allowing kid’s or unauthorized people to possess your gun. Lock them up when you’re not in control of them. The days of the shotgun or rifle in the closet or pistol in the night stand. Are over

Don’t forget your belief that if someone is on antidepressant medications they are too dangerous to ever be a gun owner.

[MTT]

The government should actually give you a free gun when you sign up, to make sure the poors aren’t kept from fully expressing their 2A rights. Subsidized ammo is likely appropriate as well.

I have not taken a Hunter safety course since I was 13. And I believe it was sponsored by the NRA. You had to take the class to get a hunting license. I think that’s still the case? I’m thinking a class equivalent to the current concealed carry classes required in some states with a direct line to the ATF. Where class instructors could flag people they suspect are crazy/ dangerous and no fuckin way should be armed

[J. Barron DeJong]

I have not taken a Hunter safety course since I was 13. And I believe it was sponsored by the NRA. You had to take the class to get a hunting license. I think that’s still the case? I’m thinking a class equivalent to the current concealed carry classes required in some states with a direct line to the ATF. Where class instructors could flag people they suspect are crazy/ dangerous and no fuckin way should be armed

I absolutely believe safety training should be required, and on an ongoing basis. Don’t see the need government to subsidize it. If the NRA or similar group wants to pay for their members to do it, go right ahead.

[MTT]

Don’t forget your belief that if someone is on antidepressant medications they are too dangerous to ever be a gun owner.

I’m not going to get bogged down in that. But I’m more than sure every one of these Waco people who went into public places. Schools churches 20th floor of a casino? Planed to go there armed with the intention of just killing random people? They were all on antidepressants. Those are facts. Draw your own conclusions

[J. Barron DeJong]

I’m not going to get bogged down in that. But I’m more than sure every one of these Waco people who went into public places. Schools churches 20th floor of a casino? Planed to go there armed with the intention of just killing random people? They were all on antidepressants. Those are facts. Draw your own conclusions

“Every cancer patient who died was treated with medicine. Those are the facts. Draw your own conclusions.”

[PNWbrit]

MTT being more than sure about something makes it a fact?

Right...

[Meadow Skipper]

Bored, SOS; different thread.

Yeah, pretty much just more dead kids and more obstruction, obfuscation, and full-on bullshit from the ammosexuals. Though boredom doesn’t quite describe my feelings, it is the SOS.

[skiJ]

Coming to a school near you, sooner or later...

As a dad with 2 elementary school age kids, this hits hard.

KSAT San Antonio: 15 killed in shooting at Uvalde elementary school; gunman dead, Gov. Abbott says.
https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022...district-says/

a Sad commentary on our society --


peace. tj

[SumJongGuy]

Don’t forget your belief that if someone is on antidepressant medications they are too dangerous to ever be a gun owner.

I wonder how they feel about people on probation for DWI, or multiple DWi or public intoxication, i.e. a history of alcohol abuse? In some states being a "habitual drunkard" exempts a person from jury duty.. It should also exempt people from the right to carry a gun in public.

[TBS]

MTT being more than sure about something makes it a fact?

Right...

I know right? MTT is TGR’s polestar of careful research and logical thinking

<insert hysterical laughter emoji>

[bennymac]

I wonder how they feel about people on probation for DWI, or multiple DWi or public intoxication, i.e. a history of alcohol abuse? In some states being a "habitual drunkard" exempts a person from jury duty.. It should also exempt people from the right to carry a gun in public.

I have my suspicions about how MTT feels about heavy drinkers not being allowed to own guns

[Adolf Allerbush]

I’m not going to get bogged down in that. But I’m more than sure every one of these Waco people who went into public places. Schools churches 20th floor of a casino? Planed to go there armed with the intention of just killing random people? They were all on antidepressants. Those are facts. Draw your own conclusions

Please provide a source for your claim that all mass shooters were on antidepressants

[Core Shot]

Please provide a source for your claim that all mass shooters were on antidepressants

“All” is clearly an exaggeration

But many is correct. These are powerful mind altering drugs.

And yes, you could argue they were fucked before the meds. But people have had psych issues since the stone age. And guns have been around for centuries.

Modern culture? Copycats? Maybe. But these “medications” are whack.


1989: Joseph Wesbecker walked into his former employer Standard Gravure Corp and shot 20 workers, killing nine. He had been taking Prozac for a month. This shooting led to a landmark case, where the survivors sued the makers of Prozac, Eli Lilly. Wesbecker used a semiautomatic Chinese AK-47-style firearm, a 9mm pistol, and a .38 Special snubnose revolver – all of which he purchased legally, passing his background check.
1995: Jarred Viktor was 15 when he was prescribed Paxil. Ten days after starting it, Viktor stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
1996: At 18, Kurt Danysh murdered his father just 17 days after being prescribed Prozac by his family doctor, who failed to do even one psychological test. During his police confession, Danysh told police the medication made him feel odd: ‘I just act differently. I don’t have the energy or personality I used to. I spend half the time in a trance.’
1997: Luke Woodham stabbed his mother, then traveled to Pearl High School, where he was enrolled, using a .30-30 to shoot two students and wound six others; he was stopped by his assistant principal (aka a good guy with a gun) who used his own .45 ACP handgun to force Woodham’s surrender.
1998: 15-year-old Kip Kinkel shot both of his parents, then carried a 9mm handgun, .22 rifle, and a .22 pistol to his Thurston High School, where he murdered two classmates and injured 22 more, all while taking Prozac.
1999: Eric Harris, 17, with Dylan Klebold, killed 12 students, one teacher, himself, and wounded 23 others during the Columbine school shooting; he had been prescribed Zoloft and then Luvox before he used a 12 gauge shotgun received through a straw purchaser and a 9mm TEC-DC9.
2001: Christopher Pittman, a 12-year-old, was prescribed Zoloft, which caused him to become agitated, jittery, and experience tactile hallucinations; Pittman told psychiatrist Dr. Lanette Atkins that he heard voices telling him: ‘Kill, kill, do it, do it.’ He took a .410 shotgun and shot his grandparents, then burned their house down.
2001: Andrea Yates drowned all five of her children. She was taking Effexor and was suffering from delusions about satanic possession. The murder of her children led Effexor to list homicidal thoughts in the medication’s side effects. Although it’s a rare side effect, manifesting in one in 1,000 patients, over 19 million prescriptions were written and filled in 2005. That’s an estimated 19,000 people suffering from homicidal thoughts because of the medication.
2005: 16-year-old Jeff Weise was taking 60 mg daily of Prozac, the highest dosage for adults, when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend, murdered 10 students at Red Lake, Minnesota, and wounded 12 more, before shooting himself. He was armed with a .40 caliber pistol, .22 pistol, and a 12 gauge shotgun.
2008: Steven Kazmierczak was prescribed Prozac, Xanax, and Ambien, a sleeping medication, three weeks before walking into Northern Illinois University, killing six people and wounding 21, with three pistols (one chambered in 9mm and two in .380 ACP) and a shotgun. Kazmierczak had stopped taking the antidepressant ‘because it made him feel like a zombie.’
2009: Two weeks after starting Lexapro, Robert Stewart walked into his estranged wife’s work at Pinelake Health and Rehab, and opened fire. He killed eight elderly patients and wounded three others. He doesn’t remember the incident.
2012: James Holmes, also known as the Batman Movie killer, was taking sertraline when he walked into the showing of The Dark Knight with two .40 caliber pistols, an AR-style .223 rifle, and a 12 gauge shotgun, killing 12 people and injuring 70 others. In his personal notebook, which he sent to his psychiatrist the same day as the shooting, shows that as the medication decreased his anxiety, he lost his fear of consequences. As the dosage became higher, his thoughts became more obsessive and psychotic.
2013: At the time of the Washington Navy Yard shooting, Aaron Alexis was a civilian contractor working at the yard and was prescribed trazodone, a serotonin antagonist and reuptake inhibitor (SARI) that works much like an SSRI to increase serotonin levels in the brain. He killed 12 people and injured eight others.
2014: Ivan Lopez was a 34-year-old US soldier who shot 15 of his comrades, killing three of them, at his base in Fort Hood, Texas. He was undergoing mental health treatment through the Veterans’ Administration, which is known for over-prescribing medication. The VA confirmed that Lopez was taking antidepressants (the VA only uses SSRI antidepressants) during the time of the shooting and his subsequent suicide.
2015: From the moment it occurred, the Charleston Church shooting has been deemed an act of white supremacy, a race crime against blacks. But two years after Dylann Roof shot and killed nine people and injured another, the court released documents that show it was more mental health than hatred that led to the murders. The documents confirmed he was taking antidepressants.
2016: Arcan Cetin, who was just 20 years old, walked into the Cascade Mall where he shot and killed four women, one just a teen, and shot one man, who later died at the hospital. Records show that Cetin was under the care of a psychiatrist and taking medication for depression and ADHD, including Prozac.

[Bobby Stainless]

I wonder how they feel about people on probation for DWI, or multiple DWi or public intoxication, i.e. a history of alcohol abuse? In some states being a "habitual drunkard" exempts a person from jury duty.. It should also exempt people from the right to carry a gun in public.

Nope. That's all good.

You better not smoke any fucking jazz cabbage though.

[k2skier112]

Don’t forget your belief that if someone is on antidepressant medications they are too dangerous to ever be a gun owner.

Not dangerous, mentally unwell
Makes perfect sense
Registration of every weapon
Training and proficiency tests,, every2 to 4 years
Insurance required
And no .50 cal or military style weapons to civilians

It's not rocket surgery

[Bobby Stainless]

Not dangerous, mentally unwell
Makes perfect sense
Registration of every weapon
Training and proficiency tests,, every2 to 4 years
Insurance required
And no .50 cal or military style weapons to civilians

It's not rocket surgery

Lot of 10k dollar 50 cals being used in mass shootings?

AR/AK style rifles or pistols. It's not rocket surgery.

[bennymac]

Not dangerous, mentally unwell
Makes perfect sense
Registration of every weapon
Training and proficiency tests,, every2 to 4 years
Insurance required
And no .50 cal or military style weapons to civilians

It's not rocket surgery

Mental health in society like anything else exists along a spectrum. There are people who obviously are mentally well enough to operate a firearm safely. At the other end of the spectrum is the batshit insane. Where do we draw the line in the sand? It needs to be done of course - but to imply it’s simple (it’s not rocket surgery) is wrong.

The idea that someone who is on - or has been on - anti depressants needs to go through wellness checks before getting a gun sounds simple.

What about anxiety (instead of depression) - the same exact medications gets used in anxiety.

What about alcoholics?

People with opiod addictions?

Should people who are on Prozac be allowed to drive? Fly personal airplanes?

To be clear I’m not advocating “this is too hard - just let everyone have guns”.

And who is going to be the arbitrator of who gets guns - doctors? If I were a doctor in that situation I’d probably only give license to 5% of people applying - since there’s no way I’m risking my career and family’s financial future trying to predict the future behavior of anyone.

My point is that it’s super complicated.

And if a mass murderer was on psych medications when they commit an atrocity I hope society has the grey matter to go beyond a binary view of “it had to have been the medications that caused it!”

Cmon people - other than the sponge brains MTbrain and More Shit we should be able to take it a step further and think maybe this person was on medications because they were mentally unwell and the system doesn’t have many other easily available options other than medications - and maybe the medications help and without them we’d have more killings?

[jfost]

“All” is clearly an exaggeration

But many is correct. These are powerful mind altering drugs…

Modern culture? Copycats? Maybe. But these “medications” are whack.

2015: From the moment it occurred, the Charleston Church shooting has been deemed an act of white supremacy, a race crime against blacks. But two years after Dylann Roof shot and killed nine people and injured another, the court released documents that show it was more mental health than hatred that led to the murders. The documents confirmed he was taking antidepressants…

Oh man, you had me until this one.

“I wasn’t racist at all until I took the meds”

[AK47bp]

Uhhh. Hate to throw a wrench in the people on antidepressants gun control topic, but wouldn’t the issue mostly be the people NOT on medication?




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[SumJongGuy]

Uhhh. Hate to throw a wrench in the people on antidepressants gun control topic, but wouldn’t the issue mostly be the people NOT on medication?




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How many LEOs are on antidepressants? A high number of cops are vets with some level of PTSD they deal with on a daily basis. It's the people addicted to mood altering shit we really need to be more concerned with.. and as you say, folks who are off meds that were working for them..

[SumJongGuy]

Nope. That's all good.

You better not smoke any fucking jazz cabbage though.

You forgot the sarcasm font.. All anyone has to do is look at how many of the gun related incidents involve alcohol.. if only someone would fund some studies amirite??