Student Loan Forgiveness

[dunfree]

I said art history, not artist. For a big word guy, you don't read that well. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings princess.

I have employed too many art history majors to do manual labor. Its not a high ROI degree.

I might add, there is a strong statistical correlation between math and income. For those of you that are bad at math... you probably didn't notice how bad your sociology degree payback is going to be.

One of the things to learn from art history is there’s more money in roles other than artist, and that art history is littered with thousands of wannabe Hendrix’s jamming away in their garage for fuckall

”know more math” isn’t particularly rigorous

[skaredshtles]

So similar financial and government structures like Scandinavia wouldn't facilitate 14-16 years of public funded education AND daycare.. and maybe even healthcare?? Weird..

I have no idea what you're trying to say here...

[schuss]

Heh - this country, for all intents and purposes, has infinite resources - we just choose to spend $700(-ish) billion per year on you-know-what.

We don't even need to stop paying for defense. Just reinstate some form of real estate tax or any other number of taxes on wealth and we're golden. We're currently in a race as to how quickly we dig ourselves into a hole on behalf of rich people who will leave as soon as it's convenient to them. It's ridiculous that we don't guarantee every kid gets food and an education, but hey, plenty of selfish people think making the numbers go up is more important (even though they'll never spend it).

[skaredshtles]

We don't even need to stop paying for defense.

Nobody would suggest stopping paying for defense... but the amount spent there seems a bit unreasonable.

[dunfree]

Nobody would suggest stopping paying for defense... but the amount spent there seems a bit unreasonable.

we don’t even know what we spend or have spent

[exsparky]

One of the things to learn from art history is there’s more money in roles other than artist, and that art history is littered with thousands of wannabe Hendrix’s jamming away in their garage for fuckall

”know more math” isn’t particularly rigorous

It took a degree in art history for you to figure that out? I'm still not seeing the value in one.

I'm guessing there are more than thousands of wannabee whatever's.
I'm guessing there are more people with finance degrees at Sony/Atlantic music(or whoever you want it to be) than art history.
David Geffen was a drop out.

[exsparky]

we don’t even know what we spend or have spent

You are correct.
The CIA sponsored modern art.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...n-1578808.html

[::: :::]

my art history major cousin works for an auction house as a period expert and legitimizing object provenance
someone's gotta keep the rich focused on the legitimacy of their investment purchases

[dunfree]

It took a degree in art history for you to figure that out? I'm still not seeing the value in one.

I'm guessing there are more than thousands of wannabee whatever's.
I'm guessing there are more people with finance degrees at Sony/Atlantic music(or whoever you want it to be) than art history.
David Geffen was a drop out.

What the fuck are you talking about? I was an engineer who probably took more math classes than you. I just find value in other information and thinking. I paid off my loans for that education several years early. Even after deferring cuz my industry shat the bed.

[skaredshtles]

I've got an art history acquaintance that has a good paying job as a curator at an art museum.

I might be the only person that knows an art history major making a financial go at art history.

[Cisco Kid]

What did art history do for that?

Jimi Hendrix never took music history.

Quoted for myopic dumbness.

BTW, How do those college educated manual laborers work for you? Better or worse than the crew you get from the HD parking lot?

[XXX-er]

What did art history do for that?

Jimi Hendrix never took music history.

It expanded his mind


man

[Toadman]

Just for context, the global market cap of BTC is less than the current US student loan debt. Just the US. That is a shitton of mostly non-dischargable debt.

#cumfreeplaystheskinflute

Clearly BTC is way undervalued.

[Toadman]

I'd rather have universal daycare and preschool for kids under 5 than send every child to college.

As long as folks without kids get a credit on their tax returns, I'm good with this.

[Mustonen]

As long as folks without kids get a credit on their tax returns, I'm good with this.

Right? Otherwise it wouldn’t be fair.

Society, generally, has an interest in a safe, secure, healthy, educated, growing population. Those things aren’t free, and all members should contribute whether or not they are a direct beneficiary. That’s kind of the whole contract.

[ghosthop]

Right? Otherwise it wouldn’t be fair.

Society, generally, has an interest in a safe, secure, healthy, educated, growing population. Those things aren’t free, and all members should contribute whether or not they are a direct beneficiary. That’s kind of the whole contract.

nonono

the only people that deserve college are those pursuing STEM degrees with the availability and work ethic to pay off their bills while in school. Don't get it twisted.

ETA: If you only take STEM classes, you'll never pursue the upper level philosophy that will teach you about a social contract. Shocking that many on this thread are lacking.

[Conundrum]

There is room for debate on whether or not those borrowing large sums and not paying them back nor had a plan to pay them back while borrowing are upholding their end of the social contract.

Sure, should school cost that much, should something be done about predatory lending, should our society pay more for education, etc. It's easy to point fingers to students living high on the hog on loans and trying for "useless" degrees, whataboutisms for bailouts for the rich, which classes of society are slighted by loan forgiveness, etc.

All I'm saying is borrowing five figures to take philosophy to learn about social construct lends itself to both sides of the discussion. I still haven't figured out where I stand on overall loan forgiveness. I'm leaning towards a needs based/income litmus system. There are plenty of people who can afford to pay back their loans and plenty who can't. Just like those who used the loans for something more than tuition while others needed them to be the first generation of their family to obtain higher ed credentials.

[dunfree]

There is room for debate on whether or not those borrowing large sums and not paying them back nor had a plan to pay them back while borrowing are upholding their end of the social contract.

Sure, should school cost that much, should something be done about predatory lending, should our society pay more for education, etc. It's easy to point fingers to students living high on the hog on loans and trying for "useless" degrees, whataboutisms for bailouts for the rich, which classes of society are slighted by loan forgiveness, etc.

All I'm saying is borrowing five figures to take philosophy to learn about social construct lends itself to both sides of the discussion. I still haven't figured out where I stand on overall loan forgiveness. I'm leaning towards a needs based/income litmus system. There are plenty of people who can afford to pay back their loans and plenty who can't. Just like those who used the loans for something more than tuition while others needed them to be the first generation of their family to obtain higher ed credentials.

if loans aren’t effectively dischargeable as they haven’t been since the early 00s/80s/70s who was taking out these loans thinking they’d never pay them back? If that was the goal it’d be way easier to buy a dirtbike on mfg credit or a credit card. The whole invented* idea would be MDs was get degrees, default and declare BK, then walk. Does that work now?

*yes invented. There was no data this was happening in the 1970s/80s

[ötzi]

Back in the day they used to make student loan checks payable to the student. In the early '80s my brother used his to move to Maui and surf and work as a line cook. Never did go back to school. He did eventually pay it back, though.

[Conundrum]

if loans aren’t effectively dischargeable as they haven’t been since the early 00s/80s/70s who was taking out these loans thinking they’d never pay them back?

Me and a lot of kids. I was a financially dumb 18 yo on academic ride so I didn't have any bills for school or living in the late 90s. My parents didn't make much money so I applied for fed loans without my folks knowing and bought a motorcycle and copious beers. I continued this process for the next couple years. Took me awhile to pay the loans back but I did.

[dunfree]

Me and a lot of kids. I was a financially dumb 18 yo on academic ride so I didn't have any bills for school or living in the late 90s. My parents didn't make much money so I applied for fed loans without my folks knowing and bought a motorcycle and copious beers. I continued this process for the next couple years. Took me awhile to pay the loans back but I did.

when I took out mine at the same time(fed) I had to sign with a loan officer who made sure I understood they wouldn’t go away. Didn’t know that wasn’t common


anyways my point is buying a bunch of shit with never gonna go away student loans in the hopium some benevolent administration may make them go away is a higher risk strategy than other forms of credit

[dunfree]

I mean we could come up with a scenario of someone who bought bitcoin at $.08 to the dollar with student loans in the many thousand range that’s now a billionaire who’s getting this free but this is like asking for governance from a pond dwelling scimitar slinging whore

[Conundrum]

when I took out mine at the same time(fed) I had to sign with a loan officer who made sure I understood they wouldn’t go away. Didn’t know that wasn’t common


anyways my point is buying a bunch of shit with never gonna go away student loans in the hopium some benevolent administration may make them go away is a higher risk strategy than other forms of credit

Yeah, I never thought of the idea of it ever going away due to the government. But then again, I never really thought about paying it back or really anything about it. I never borrowed money before that. An $8,000 check in the eyes of an 18 year old who never had much money was enough to not think about much except future fun.

But then again, where was the responsible adult authorizing the loan and where were the questions asking how much I needed to live and go to school on? Just a check box on an app for maximum amount qualified for.

[skaredshtles]

I mean we could come up with a scenario of someone who bought bitcoin at $.08 to the dollar with student loans in the many thousand range that’s now a billionaire who’s getting this free but this is like asking for governance from a pond dwelling scimitar slinging whore

Bloody peasant.

[Harry]

Post 200 in this thread.

This entire thread misses the whole problem.

When I graduated HS in the mid-70s it really did not matter how much you borrowed or what your major was, or even if you graduated or dropped out, wages were so good you could pay off whatever loans you had in 2-3 years. That’s impossible now.

Income inequality is the problem.


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