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Thread: Student Loan Forgiveness
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05-02-2022, 08:29 AM #101
I thought we were arguing for abolishing all degrees that weren't STEM degrees?
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05-02-2022, 08:31 AM #102
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05-02-2022, 08:31 AM #103
I never went to a bar in college, ever. I went to more bars in middle and high school with my fake and a camera than I would in the next decade. I got a 75% scholarship, did work study, and started a club with 2 others (in name only) and was paid to brew beer as a zymurgy experiment for 3 years. I recycled beer bottles, took grad classes, graduated in 3 years and worked my ass off for cash, well over 40 hours a week over the span. I got a passport, traveled during breaks, hopped a shit ton of trains, never owned a car, kept it to a moto, blew that up and rebuilt it and got on; I also did my teaching internship where I had to be in HS math classes to teach at least 3 days a week and wrote a year long thesis while I worked. I graduated debt free from the most expensive private college in the nation at that time in 3 years. I still was a DJ, still volunteered, and was the captain of my "sport team".
I am very familiar with the insane costs, and am in tune with our current crop of students. Sure, it's a different playing field, but the metrics have shifted, not changed, and kids are lazy AF overall. I took a year off after college, hiked the AT, went back in the kitchen, paid off my debt, then got a tech job in Boston, bought a new TRD in 96, then sold it 4 years later to pay for books to go back to school. At that time, I never talked to my parents for 5 years and was nowhere to be seen. Then I showed back up at home to bury them.
FYI, the tuition for my college in 1993 was 23k per year. You do the work/math. I know I did. And in 1989, I said fuck this town and applied for private high schools. My twin was the HS president of the local PS HS. I got a 50% scholarship, did work study, and dived into the restaurant business working on the line till 3 am driving my waitress Mom home every night, and then commuting 2 hours each way to school. Paid that off before I even started college at 16. I said FTS and got out.
Oh yeah, buy BTC in 1989.
And for Buster, Reed was my 1st choice. I met with an alumnus in the World Trade Center. I got the acceptance a few months later. My parents didn't know why I was crying so hard as a punk coming in with an open letter- hell, they didn't even know I applied to college. Yes, I was in, 2, I couldn't pay for it with the money they gave me, and neither could they, and nor did I expect it. Choices. Make them.
My twin ended up going from HS president to and upstate SUNY. She fucked and married her first boyfriend. Got a masters in Geo and has spent the last 20 years as a stay at home mom. Completely miserable with an abusive husband in eastern WA. Going through a divorce in her late 40's, 3 kids flying the coop, and wondering how to actually start a life for herself. Starting teaching MS science to have something to do and get away from the husband.Last edited by MakersTeleMark; 05-02-2022 at 08:53 AM.
Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague
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05-02-2022, 08:32 AM #104
Let's even take work ethic out of this - pure time logistics are the challenge as many schools offer major requirements at only a limited number of time slots that may conflict with work. Not to mention competitive programs have an expectation of additional event attendance because schools assume students are full time.
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05-02-2022, 08:46 AM #105
A non-STEM degree with a 15 hour load has 15 hours of week in classroom and then you do readings and homework on top of that, but that's flexible and probably amounts to less than 40 hours in total for most majors.
Your STEM degree still signs you up for 15 credits but you are in the classroom 12 hours a week and then lab for another 8-15 hours a week (because 3-5 hours in a lab only counts for 1 credit hour) and THEN still have WAY more reading and homework than the non-STEM degree. A healthcare degree puts you in class 15 hours a week and then puts you in clinical for 24+ hours a week and on top of that you do pre-prep, post conference, and then STILL have way more reading and homework than a non-STEM degree.Originally Posted by blurred
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05-02-2022, 08:48 AM #106
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05-02-2022, 08:51 AM #107Hucked to flat once
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How about:
-We cancel the interest on all student loans. It was not financially responsible to make an uncollateralized loan to someone with no income or assets. Any loans paid back in the last ten years will either receive a credit on taxes or refund from the private lender for interest as well. Maybe lenders will quit making crazy loans and maybe without that cash available moving forward, tuition inflation will cool.
-For private schools with either a large endowment or high profit margin or both, the amount over the equivalent tuition at a public school will be paid by the school back to the lender. Need to work on that threshold.
-Remove bankruptcy protection stipulations for student loans.
-Audit business profits and personal wealth generation due to PPP loans. Call those notes and apply it to the student loan crisis and future grants/scholarships proportionately.
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05-02-2022, 08:51 AM #108Registered User
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05-02-2022, 08:56 AM #109
My point is the vast majority of students could work a part time job while finishing in 4 years or less.
If you take 6 years to do 120 credits, that is 10 credits per semester while still having the summers off, or 6-7 credits / semester year round, a VERY part time student. You can work a full time job all 6 years no problem, maybe pick one that does tuition reimbursement.Originally Posted by blurred
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05-02-2022, 08:56 AM #110
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05-02-2022, 08:57 AM #111
Yep, also excludes those who come from different backgrounds and have to be caretakers to parents, grandparents, siblings or other family. Or people with disabilities.
If you want an educated workforce, you can't gate education behind a wall of "must work and go to school with no other responsibilities". Plenty of the "screw around" kids are those with plenty of family money so it doesn't matter. I worked through my whole time at college and saw plenty of them working at the on-campus computer store.
This also implies that pure achievement is what gets you ahead in business and life - it's not. The kid who worked through school will likely be less successful as they will come out with a much weaker network compared to peers with more social exposure. Until hiring moves away from who you know being important, the importance of strong friend networks won't change. This isn't to say you need to enable a 4 year vacation, it's just putting some truth around why some of the "screwing around" is actually useful in the long term.
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05-02-2022, 08:59 AM #112Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague
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05-02-2022, 09:02 AM #113
I know many people who went through a 4 year nursing degree, incredibly time demanding, had a job, and were single moms. They were a very sizeable minority of the non-sub-22yo student population.
Life isn't easy for everyone. In fact it is FUCKING HARD.
If you want an educated workforce, you can't gate education behind a wall of "must work and go to school with no other
Plenty of the "screw around" kids are those with plenty of family money so it doesn't matter.
Screwing around is fine, just don't bitch about it and demand the public pay for it.Originally Posted by blurred
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05-02-2022, 09:03 AM #114
I guess if you have paid off your student loans you are doing okay. If you haven't paid off the student loans, you either just graduated or recently graduated in the past few years or you just might be struggling with the job prospects because you got a degree in 17th century French poetry or some other worthless degree. Not in favor of blanket forgiveness. I like the idea of just making it principal only. Maybe extend the payment terms. And means test it.
Also, what happens when the Dems are out of office, and the next Repub gets in and says, sorry, not sorry kids, no student loan debt forgiveness for you? I guess that's just life.
I'm sure that team Biden is polling hard the student loan debt crowd to see what it will take to get their vote. (And most probably won't even end up voting) Unlike the rich CEO's of America who are able to easily buy legislation in favor of corporate America, poor students can't buy a politicians vote and have to resort to extortion.
However, it does appear that there might be some trickle down effect of forgiving some student loan debt. So, maybe there's some benefits to the overall economy? IDK. I'm surrounded by a bunch of smart people that have gone back to school and gotten advanced degrees. They all have the benefit of employer tuition reimbursement. So, the employer sees the value in having a well educated workforce, and most larger corporations are willing to invest in their employees to some degree. Maybe American taxpayers like me, can foot some of that trickle down. We all know the rich won't be the ones footing the bill for these kids."We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch
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05-02-2022, 09:06 AM #115Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague
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05-02-2022, 09:11 AM #116I drink it up
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I guess. My point is that even though I, like you, found myself capable of working a real life full time job while attending school full time and supporting a family and got out of it with pretty minimal student loans, it’s not an option available to all and I did it at 25 instead of at 18, and even if it was available to all, I can well recognize that it isn’t something that everybody is capable of accomplishing. Not meant as a humblebrag, like your comments are, just a reality I can recognize after interacting with different workforces over the years.
focus.
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05-02-2022, 09:12 AM #117
On the left we scream that trickle down is bullshit... until we need to justify the doling out of public monies to the petit bourgeoise who are higher earners? This is anti-equality, politically toxic and unethical bad one-time-fix policy that doesn't solve the underlying problems.
Do we need a spending infusion of "free" money when interest rates are skyrocketing to combat inflation? Fuck no!
I mean, I'll happily take 10K if the gov wants to pay down my student loans. But that doesn't mean I think it is good policy.Originally Posted by blurred
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05-02-2022, 09:13 AM #118Registered User
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I haven't read the myriad of responses, but this statement should tell you that it's BS
"I’ve held off on paying that off ever since this has been in the wind. From that perspective, sure, let’s do it. "
And what??
"It’s obviously not really equitable. I’m not sure it has to be. The whining from those that due to timing or paying off early didn’t get the benefit feels hollow,"
Whining? So people who are responsible and take accountability for their actions are whining because they don't want slackers to get off and don;t want to pay slackers bills?? Mind blown.
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05-02-2022, 09:14 AM #119
i forgive all loan debts and problems
now garner life skills to pay them bills
or be a dead beat and face consequences of such"When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
"I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
"THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
"I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno
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05-02-2022, 09:15 AM #120Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague
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05-02-2022, 09:15 AM #121Registered User
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I’m hoping that the general acknowledgement that the system is not working well leads to some compromise where a lot of what is discussed here is addressed, but in this political climate I’m not holding my breath.
This generally seems like a culture war topic while the real money is walking away smiling at us fighting over scraps.
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05-02-2022, 09:19 AM #122
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05-02-2022, 09:19 AM #123
This is bullshit, the main difference observed wasn’t overall workload but the ability to skate without doing the work. Eg while getting my stem degree one of English courses has a book a week, but you could get by only reading a couple
measuring degrees by work inputed is Marxist dipshittery anyways; music degrees can require incredible effort and talent but generally aren’t worth shit
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05-02-2022, 09:22 AM #124
Just for context, the global market cap of BTC is less than the current US student loan debt. Just the US. That is a shitton of mostly non-dischargable debt.
#cumfreeplaystheskinfluteIs it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague
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05-02-2022, 09:26 AM #125
My kid did cafeteria work study year one. He's working as a part time shift manager at Jack in the Box this year, 17 hours of classes, engineering school and doing quite well. Even finds time to satisfy his gaming addiction.. He's in the dorms. It's still costing us a lot of money and he's racking up some debt, but we're not below the poverty line so we're paying over half of the expenses. He also has a scholarship that covers about 25% of it.
Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!
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