Student Loan Forgiveness

**JongDoe** · 05-02-2022, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Mustonen

I wasn’t using either as justification for it, and the conflict presented therein is what I was looking to resolve.

And yeah, worrying about what somebody else is getting is whining. Shit ain’t fair. Sorry man.

I'm not worrying about what people are getting, unless I'm footing the bill after being in the same exact circumstances and paying my way.
You are holding off on paying off your debt hoping to get an out and I will end up subsidizing. Not cool, not fair, and not logical. I guess I'm just a greedy mofo.

**AdironRider** · 05-02-2022, 10:16 AM

I'd rather have universal daycare and preschool for kids under 5 than send every child to college.

**skaredshtles** · 05-02-2022, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

I'd rather have universal daycare and preschool for kids under 5 than send every child to college.

That's not what I'm advocating. I'm talking about education beyond 12th grade. Trade school, technical training, college - all should be available as public education.

I also think that day care and preschool, as well as full day kindergarten should also be provided.

**exsparky** · 05-02-2022, 10:29 AM

I was asked to give a guest lecture this fall at an East Coast University.

I really want to ask the art history majors to raise their hands. Then ask them if they have student debt to punch themselves in the crotch until they cannot reproduce or to drop out and get a job.

I won't be asked back but would the world be a better place?

**::: :::** · 05-02-2022, 10:43 AM

there's a good reason to hit pause somewhere in the late teens -- it is def a good time to decide trade vs further academic pursuit
both should be valued & supported by modern society

**schuss** · 05-02-2022, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by exsparky

I was asked to give a guest lecture this fall at an East Coast University.

I really want to ask the art history majors to raise their hands. Then ask them if they have student debt to punch themselves in the crotch until they cannot reproduce or to drop out and get a job.

I won't be asked back but would the world be a better place?

Unlikely. I'd rather the finance majors fuck off forever. I'd say finance has ruined a lot more in the world than art ever did.

**Conundrum** · 05-02-2022, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by ::: :::

there's a good reason to hit pause somewhere in the late teens -- it is def a good time to decide trade vs further academic pursuit
both should be valued & supported by modern society

Agreed. Society thinks that children's brains are not developed enough to legally handle alcohol but they can legally hold a gun for our country or borrow $100k for school. Weird world we live in.

**skaredshtles** · 05-02-2022, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by schuss

Unlikely. I'd rather the finance majors fuck off forever. I'd say finance has ruined a lot more in the world than art ever did.

I'm a finance major. Realized junior year that I really had no interest in being involved in finance... but finished the degree 'cause I was so close.

**dunfree** · 05-02-2022, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by schuss

Unlikely. I'd rather the finance majors fuck off forever. I'd say finance has ruined a lot more in the world than art ever did.

I’ve seen way more lardass union electricians featherbed deadweight than art history majors. Too make it in art you’ve gotta hustle (hustle in art having the potential to be far more insalubrious than finance)

**Conundrum** · 05-02-2022, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by schuss

Unlikely. I'd rather the finance majors fuck off forever. I'd say finance has ruined a lot more in the world than art ever did.

How about finance minors? If there was at least a little finance learned in HS and higher ed, maybe less people would get fucked by the finance majors.

**oldnew_guy** · 05-02-2022, 11:04 AM

This thread makes me think there should be widespread support for tax increases to pay as we go for infrastructure.

**AdironRider** · 05-02-2022, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

That's not what I'm advocating. I'm talking about education beyond 12th grade. Trade school, technical training, college - all should be available as public education.

I also think that day care and preschool, as well as full day kindergarten should also be provided.

I get that. I think there is to much variability in what each person's needs are educationally after high school and struggle to support a blanket continuing education program past 18.

**AdironRider** · 05-02-2022, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by dunfree

I’ve seen way more lardass union electricians featherbed deadweight than art history majors. Too make it in art you’ve gotta hustle (hustle in art having the potential to be far more insalubrious than finance)

Every art history major I know has a substantial trust fund, like foundations named after the patriarch level money.

**exsparky** · 05-02-2022, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by dunfree

I’ve seen way more lardass union electricians featherbed deadweight than art history majors. Too make it in art you’ve gotta hustle (hustle in art having the potential to be far more insalubrious than finance)

I said art history, not artist. For a big word guy, you don't read that well. I hope I didn't hurt your feelings princess.

I have employed too many art history majors to do manual labor. Its not a high ROI degree.

I might add, there is a strong statistical correlation between math and income. For those of you that are bad at math... you probably didn't notice how bad your sociology degree payback is going to be.

**skaredshtles** · 05-02-2022, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by dunfree

<snip> far more insalubrious

**XXX-er** · 05-02-2022, 11:20 AM

A local ski bud is a great skier/ frontman & lead guitar singer / a highballing tree planter and now branching into timberframing

proof that art school was worth something

**skaredshtles** · 05-02-2022, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

I get that. I think there is to much variability in what each person's needs are educationally after high school and struggle to support a blanket continuing education program past 18.

Obviously not everyone is going to do the additional 2-4 years. And it wouldn't be compulsory. Just like some states don't require you to attend school until you're 18.

**exsparky** · 05-02-2022, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

A local ski bud is a great skier/ frontman & lead guitar singer / a highballing tree planter and now branching into timberframing

proof that art school was worth something

What did art history do for that?

Jimi Hendrix never took music history.

**Conundrum** · 05-02-2022, 11:23 AM

He just wrote some of it.

**SumJongGuy** · 05-02-2022, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

I'd rather have universal daycare and preschool for kids under 5 than send every child to college.

whatabout (ism) having both?? Put your kids in daycare AND to to college free while they are there?? Oh the humanity!

What could be more "pro life" than that? Getting knocked up doesn't totally sideline your higher education plans...

**skaredshtles** · 05-02-2022, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

whatabout (ism) having both?? Put your kids in daycare AND to to college free while they are there?? Oh the humanity!

Let's try to get away from this notion. We all know that K-12 education is not free, nor would be any of the rest. But it would be worth it... from an "advanced society" standpoint.

**oldnew_guy** · 05-02-2022, 11:29 AM

Adirons point is that in a world of finite resources we are better off spending the political capital and tax money on impacting kids in that age group because it can have profound impacts on outcomes through the rest of life, but noticeably measurable in test scores for school age kids.

Now, if I recall correctly he does have a young one, so might be processing the fact that he is going to pay a college tuition just to send the little one to a good preschool or daycare.

**SumJongGuy** · 05-02-2022, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Let's try to get away from this notion. We all know that K-12 education is not free, nor would be any of the rest. But it would be worth it... from an "advanced society" standpoint.

So similar financial and government structures like Scandinavia wouldn't facilitate 14-16 years of public funded education AND daycare.. and maybe even healthcare?? Weird..

**AdironRider** · 05-02-2022, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by oldnew_guy

Adirons point is that in a world of finite resources we are better off spending the political capital and tax money on impacting kids in that age group because it can have profound impacts on outcomes through the rest of life, but noticeably measurable in test scores for school age kids.

Now, if I recall correctly he does have a young one, so might be processing the fact that he is going to pay a college tuition just to send the little one to a good preschool or daycare.

This (well the first part). I reconciled I was going to be spending a boatload of cash on both daycare and college prior to having the rugrat. But if it comes down to me supporting additional government funded education, I favor, and by a substantial margin, that money go the daycare/preschool route for the reasons you mention.