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  1. #1
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    PSA: Pieps Safety Check

    Just received this email from BlackDiamond (click here to submit claim):

    "PIEPS and Black Diamond Equipment Avalanche Transceiver / Beacon Safety Check

    We have observed a small number of PIEPS and Black Diamond Avalanche Beacons with malfunctioning electronic components that may prevent it from switching between SEND and SEARCH modes. Our testing is ongoing, but it is important to us that we communicate this information promptly and ask that anyone in possession of the following beacons to immediately perform a safety inspection to ensure your beacon is functioning properly.

    • PIEPS Micro BT Button
    • PIEPS Micro BT Race
    • PIEPS Micro BT Sensor
    • PIEPS POWDER BT
    • PIEPS PRO BT
    • PIEPS DSP PRO
    • PIEPS DSP SPORT
    • BLACK DIAMOND RECON
    • BLACK DIAMOND GUIDE

    If you have one of these beacons, we ask that you immediately check and verify that the SEND/SEARCH/BLUETOOTH modes are working properly. If your beacon does not pass the Safety Check, you should retire it immediately and return it to PIEPS / BLACK DIAMOND for service, free-of charge.

    Instructions to perform the Safety Check and related information can be found
    here. We will update you as more information becomes available.

    If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact our customer service department at
    ski@bdel.com.

    We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused."
    Best regards, Terry
    (Direct Contact is best vs PMs)

    SlideWright.com
    Ski, Snowboard & Tools, Wax and Wares
    Repair, Waxing, Tuning, Mounting Tips & more
    Add TGR handle to notes & paste 5% TGR Discount code during checkout: 1121TGR

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
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    100
    Faulty electronics, faulty design on prior models, remind me why people still buy Pieps beacons? Ditched mine during the last Pieps gong show and haven't looked back.

  3. #3
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    Dec 2020
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    23
    Got a deal on BD Guide earlier this year.... probably not a deal at all. Should have just gotten a Barryvox

  4. #4
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    Ugh. What's with the retire it, then send it in for free service but? If I'm retiring it because you built a shitty product, should I be happy you're not charging me for service??
    a witty saying proves nothing
    voltaire

  5. #5
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    last page in the Bike and Bloom magazine
    Name:  IMG_3178.jpg
Views: 610
Size:  92.3 KB

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by whipski View Post
    last page in the Bike and Bloom magazine
    Name:  IMG_3178.jpg
Views: 610
Size:  92.3 KB
    So what’s with the blood sucking lawyer class action?

    Yeah. You died in a burial and should have been found.
    Liability there.

    Pieps is recalling and replacing units. And what do the lawyers add to that? More fees. More expense. Pain and suffering from finding out your beacon may have been defective?
    And you get money and lawyers get money. And no one died?

    Who will manufacture beacons anymore?
    . . .

  7. #7
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    Can You Sue Black Diamond?
    Importantly, you do not need to have suffered an injury due to a defective avalanche transceiver product in order to have a valid claim against Black Diamond. You only need to have purchased the product.

    Please let us know if you purchased a Black Diamond avalanche transceiver that has since been recalled due to a defect. Even if you no longer have the product, you should reach out to Boesen Law in Denver, Colorado. The more potential class members we hear from, the stronger the potential class action against Black Diamond can become.
    . . .

  8. #8
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    I think you fail to recognize why Black Diamond came to be in the first place JONG.
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
    This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
    Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague

  9. #9
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    And BD/Pieps was very careful to have never issued a “recall”…

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    I think you fail to recognize why Black Diamond came to be in the first place JONG.
    And you oh mighty practicing cave man lawyer think it’s great to class action bankrupt companies that dare to make beacons.

    They came for bdel/pieps. And I said nothing.

    If this holds up, beacons will cease to exist.

    I’m not saying it’s ok to sell products that fail. But what are the damages.
    Show me on the doll where the defective beacon hurt you.

    There was one alleged death. RIP.
    That sucks. Pay out for that.

    But piling on when you have no actual injury other than the purchase price of your shitty product? Fuck. Off.

    PS
    BDel was Yvonne. We need a class action against all the damage caused by the pitons driven into helpless granite.
    And actually, they were forced into bankruptcy once already by lawyers that sued for hazards of rock climbing.
    . . .

  11. #11
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    Here’s some Wikipedia in case you don’t know

    Black Diamond Equipment's history dates from the late 1950s, when climber Yvon Chouinard began hand-forging pitons and selling them from the trunk of his car in Yosemite Valley. Chouinard's pitons quickly gained a reputation for quality, and Chouinard Equipment was born soon after in Ventura, California.[3]

    In early 1989, after several product-liability lawsuits and a continued lack of profitability, Yvon Chouinard placed the company in Chapter 11 bankruptcy

    =====
    And yes, the BK wasn’t even for product defects. Just dumbass greedy lawyers.

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-...605-story.html
    . . .

  12. #12
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    I am pretty sure i read that as a result of Chouinard committing ch 11, Black Diamond fights all lawsuits ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I am pretty sure i read that as a result of Chouinard committing ch 11, Black Diamond fights all lawsuits ?
    It’s a good question. Chouinard equipment filed BK. And yet he was making insane money from Patagonia.

    You need isolated corporations. I’m sure pieps is isolated from bdel and the rest of the holding companies.

    They will file BK if this suit takes off.

    My concern is about who makes beacons thereafter

    The only reason we can still ski lift served is state laws limiting liability. Without that. It’s game over.

  14. #14
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    its been awhile but i read the artical in outside mag when it came out, as i remember the 2 were seperate, Patagonnia was worth hundreds of millions a year, but Chouinard equipment was < 10 million a year and so he let it go

    I could be wrong but I thot I read as a result of Chouinard going under BD fights all lawsuites instead of settling like insurance companies try to do, anyone who remembers post the exact story
    Last edited by XXX-er; 04-16-2022 at 06:14 PM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  15. #15
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    Yvonne never went public with his companies and as such not had to report details of ownership and contractual relationships. I'm not sure what the the current situation is since he divested.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I am pretty sure i read that as a result of Chouinard committing ch 11, Black Diamond fights all lawsuits ?
    FIFY:
    "I am pretty sure i read that [all companies] fight all lawsuits."
    Seriously though, the % of civil litigation that proceeds all the way to trial is negligible.
    So fighting a lawsuit vs settling out (whether or not backed by insurance coverage) are not two mutually exclusive options, i.e., a defendant will fight and fight (and fight) and eventually (yet almost inevitably) the parties settle. (Hopefully after at least one of the parties have engaged the services of a certain economist to serve as an expert witness on monetary damages, although preferably not during ski season, i.e., Oct - Jul.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post
    [...]They will file BK if this suit takes off.[...]
    That would be a stretch with a market capitalization of over $800 million.
    Perhaps the ultimate corporate parent could try the tactic of having the subsidiaries seek bankruptcy protection.
    But that would get into all sorts of issues with piercing the corporate veil.
    (Once again, another opportunity for at least one of the parties to engage the services of a certain economist to serve as an expert witness on corporate structure and controls, i.e., when does corporate ownership go beyond that and instead also entail control of corporate decisionmaking, which in this context could hinge on oversight of the specific safety issues of the switch.)


    Quote Originally Posted by whipski View Post
    Yvonne never went public with his companies and as such not had to report details of ownership and contractual relationships. I'm not sure what the the current situation is since he divested.
    Everything about Patagonia's finances continues to be completely opaque.
    Interesting how BD went off in the exact opposite direction (after he sold it off).

    P.S. My diminutive PIEPS Micro BT Button is just fine, whew!
    Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by miserywhip View Post
    Ugh. What's with the retire it, then send it in for free service but? If I'm retiring it because you built a shitty product, should I be happy you're not charging me for service??
    My interpretation of that is should your Pieps beacon exhibit this problem, then stop using it immediately (for which "retire" does seem to be a bad word choice), then BD will repair or replace it (for free).
    Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core Shot View Post
    So what’s with the blood sucking lawyer class action?

    Yeah. You died in a burial and should have been found.
    Liability there.

    Pieps is recalling and replacing units. And what do the lawyers add to that? More fees. More expense. Pain and suffering from finding out your beacon may have been defective?
    And you get money and lawyers get money. And no one died?

    Who will manufacture beacons anymore?
    Ahem, only the plaintiffs and the lawyers get money? Let's not overlook the expert witnesses too!
    Seriously though, the argument would probably be exposure to risk. In other words, if you had been counting on your beacon should a rescue be necessary, yet that beacon was subject to some chance of failure, does that exposure to risk count as damages? I'm not opining on the answer to that question, but it's definitely an interesting question. (And here it's two steps removed, because on any single tour, the chance of a full burial is incredibly small -- or at least it sure better be! -- and the change of a switch failure is also small. Same situation with Takata vehicle airbags, but a quick search seems to indicate that the class action lawsuits were limited only to drivers involved in crashes.)

    As for who will continue manufacture beacons should a lawsuit like this ever succeed, exactly all of the five current companies, but the prices will be higher.
    Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series

  19. #19
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    Yes. Prices go up with liability.

    The $800 million is the holding company.

    Pieps might not even be tied to BD.

    I’m sure the beacon company stands alone.
    That subsidiary files BK. The parent loses equity.

    No piercing the corporate veil without malfeasance.

    If you owned a ford pinto and it didnt explode? And they offered to buy back or fix your car? Minimal damages. Fuck these lawyers.

    If pieps was stonewalling a fix or recall then great. That’s how the pinto got recalled. Lawyers forced that.

    But this seems like piling on. Blood sucking leeching.
    Pieps is proactively reaching out to owners of possibly defective beacons.

    No matter what. Pieps is dead as a brand.
    Beacons need to be reliable.

  20. #20
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    Clarus 10k has some interesting (comparatively speaking) details about the company. BD receives many mentions, yet Pieps almost none. Pieps is one single subsidiary, whereas BD is about a dozen different subsidiaries (although most of those are for state-specific retail operations, plus overseas).
    For worldwide sales, the roof rack segment is a bit over half. BD & Pieps are close to a third. The remainder is ammo.
    Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series

  21. #21
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    It’s sad. I know ortovox existed with Pieps.

    But everyone called it a Pieps.

    People still say “are you peeping”

    Pieps 457. Good shit back in the day.

    It’s like Kleenex being bankrupted never to be spoken of again.

  22. #22
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    Nah, we called em Skadis or beacons. But I guess I am not everybody.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  23. #23
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    yeah I've always heard skiers call an aviy beacon a pieps

    goggled pieps.com , its sez BD is the north American distributor for the product
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    Nah, we called em Skadis or beacons. But I guess I am not everybody.
    I forgot about skadi.
    Wow.

    Rabbit hole thanks to wild snow

    https://www.wildsnow.com/10527/skadi...n-transceiver/

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    924
    This check only reinforces my two big dislikes on the pieps/BD... 1) why isnt the "off" in the middle position (the hardest position to slide to) and 2) why doesnt it make some noise (ideally a distinct noise) when turned off? I've since switched to the Arva Neo Pro which is cheaper, much better designed and a lot more range

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