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  1. #26
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    May 2008
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    On a genuine ol' fashioned authentic steam powered aereoplane
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    Will an obscene bill essentially ruin me? Sure, but it's pretty cool having an arm that will hopefully be fixed soon.

    The air medics and pilot were badass. I did have the presence of mind to put the ball in their court. On the rim they said, "We can fly you to Moab and then the ground ambulance will certainly drive you the 90 minutes to GJ because your arm looks really bad and the Moab hospital won't really be equipped to help you.........or we can just fly you straight to St. Marys in GJ."

    Me: "What do YOU guys want to do?"

    Medics: "100% no question we fly your straight to St. Marys in GJ."

  2. #27
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    Dec 2004
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    Where the sheets have no stains
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    Medics: "100% no question we fly your straight to St. Marys in GJ."
    I was not there but I would say that was a really good call.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    Last Best City in the Last Best Place
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    7,270
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    Will an obscene bill essentially ruin me?
    Tell them you can pay $100 a month and see what they say.

  4. #29
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    Good chance that was all in network though?

    A montana insured person getting hurt in UT and flown to CO has a pretty damn good chance of being out of network. Not sure how I can even look up what IS in network for me. BCBSMT website is terrible. Why spend .00000001% of their income on a new website to actually help patients? That would make way too much sense.

    https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sh...-medical-bills

    Not sure how this changes much? They didn't give me a price quote for the flight when I was laying in the sand on Fentanyl on the edge of Goldbar Rim......we kinda had other shit to talk about.
    Seems like the No Surprises Act should protect you. The bit about quoting a price seems to apply to uninsured patients. Otherwise it's between your insurer and the air ambulance service how much is paid, with you paying any deductible and copay per your insurance contract. The only issue would seem to be if the insurer decided to claim that the flight was not medically necessary. I don't recall what other injuries you had besides the arm.

    I'm no fan of the medical insurance industry--except for my Kaiser plan--but the balance billing thing is not entirely on the insurers. Greedy doctors, hospitals, drug companies, ambulance companies all play a part. It's not the health insurance industry that's fucked, it's the whole damn health care "system",

  5. #30
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    May 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Seems like the No Surprises Act should protect you. The bit about quoting a price seems to apply to uninsured patients. Otherwise it's between your insurer and the air ambulance service how much is paid, with you paying any deductible and copay per your insurance contract. The only issue would seem to be if the insurer decided to claim that the flight was not medically necessary. I don't recall what other injuries you had besides the arm.

    I'm no fan of the medical insurance industry--except for my Kaiser plan--but the balance billing thing is not entirely on the insurers. Greedy doctors, hospitals, drug companies, ambulance companies all play a part. It's not the health insurance industry that's fucked, it's the whole damn health care "system",
    That was my rational behind asking the air medics what THEY thought was necessary. It was not my decision to fly to GJ. It was theirs. It was their professional medical opinion after my arm was already dislocated for over 3 hours and there was almost no pulse in my wrist.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
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    8,299
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    if the insurer decided to claim that the flight was not medically necessary
    Insurers almost *always* claim this if they think it's even remotely justifiable.

    I generally agree with the rest of your post - it's not just insurance companies - but they are the part of the equation that has the greatest self interest in fucking over the patient. Actually, that's pretty much their only interest.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    1,283
    I was just kicking around a Life Flight membership yesterday. This thread got me off my wallet.

    Vibes to you healing WhiteRoom and hope the bill bullshit gets settled as pain free as possible.

    Update: Can’t use my HRA VEBA Visa for the membership, but I could wipe out my whole account paying the bill if I had to be transported
    Last edited by Hood26; 05-08-2022 at 10:30 PM.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,951
    I just bought LifeFlight Network insurance (WA, OR, ID, MT) and the SAR50 through my Inreach. Thanks for the push, fellas.

  9. #34
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    Oct 2003
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    Ogden
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    9,103
    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    I was not there but I would say that was a really good call.
    I think I would’ve chosen Moab to ground ambulance for the multiple 10k savings. Time wasn’t really of the essence anymore was it?

    Hindsight and all, and pretty sure you didn’t know.

  10. #35
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    Dec 2004
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    Where the sheets have no stains
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    I was going by the reduced perfusion that WRG had mentioned.

    I was working a MTB race at Deer Valley way back when, a rider hit a tree and smashed/pulverized his knee, couldn't get any pulse in his lower leg, couldn't get anyone on the radio, took forever to get him down and to primary care. He lost the leg below the knee.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  11. #36
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    Oct 2003
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    Ogden
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    I was going by the reduced perfusion that WRG had mentioned.

    I was working a MTB race at Deer Valley way back when, a rider hit a tree and smashed/pulverized his knee, couldn't get any pulse in his lower leg, couldn't get anyone on the radio, took forever to get him down and to primary care. He lost the leg below the knee.
    Ah copy, I missed that part. I just knew he was already waiting a long time. Yep, always life and functioning limbs over $$$.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Babylon
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    13,450
    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco View Post
    I don’t know any US SAR teams that charge for rescue. We’re almost all volunteers so there’s nothing to reimburse. .
    After I got pulled up and back into Snowmass after going over a cliff there into a drainage just OB off Sneakys I got a not small bill from Snowmass Wildcat Fire Protection District who assists the Patrol there for OB rescue.

    True it didnt compare to the air ambulance to Junction, but wasnt free. Paid every cent happily & thanked them.
    Last edited by Woodsy; 05-09-2022 at 02:26 PM.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    9,300ft
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronco View Post
    I don’t know any US SAR teams that charge for rescue. We’re almost all volunteers so there’s nothing to reimburse.
    Fire Departments will happily bill you for rescue if you. There are some FDs that have taken over rescue from local SAR teams.

    GCSAR (Moab) used to charge for rescue. Now they only charge in "extraordinary" circumstances.

    As far as reimbursement, how many missions have you damaged an ATV/Snowmobile or ruined some 300ft ropes or had rescuers personal equipment destroyed etc? In CO a team can ask the CO DOLA SAR fund to reimburse that if the rescued party had a SAR Card (or hunting/fishing/OHV license)
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Granite, UT
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    2,296
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    Good chance that was all in network though?

    A montana insured person getting hurt in UT and flown to CO has a pretty damn good chance of being out of network. Not sure how I can even look up what IS in network for me. BCBSMT website is terrible. Why spend .00000001% of their income on a new website to actually help patients? That would make way too much sense.

    https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sh...-medical-bills

    Not sure how this changes much? They didn't give me a price quote for the flight when I was laying in the sand on Fentanyl on the edge of Goldbar Rim......we kinda had other shit to talk about.
    Not sure what parts of this might apply to your situation....

    https://moabsunnews.com/2022/03/03/d...ssive-billing/

  15. #40
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    PNW
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    764
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    As far as reimbursement, how many missions have you damaged an ATV/Snowmobile or ruined some 300ft ropes or had rescuers personal equipment destroyed etc? In CO a team can ask the CO DOLA SAR fund to reimburse that if the rescued party had a SAR Card (or hunting/fishing/OHV license)
    Here in Washington, we can submit expenses for personal gear damaged on a mission to the state and get reimbursed. Unit gear is purchased with donations.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    On a genuine ol' fashioned authentic steam powered aereoplane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Touring_Sedan View Post
    Not sure what parts of this might apply to your situation....

    https://moabsunnews.com/2022/03/03/d...ssive-billing/
    Photo in the article is the exact heli which I flew in.

  17. #42
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    Jan 2008
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    truckee
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    Under the good samaritan laws in many states SAR volunteers can't be sued for negligence. I don't know if many states protect non-profit SAR organizations as well and if submitting a bill, even if it were for actual expenses for an individual rescue, might make the organization vulnerable to liability.

  18. #43
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    Oct 2003
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    9,300ft
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Under the good samaritan laws in many states SAR volunteers can't be sued for negligence.
    That isn't so. BSAR rescuers are unpaid professionals and not protected by good sam laws in many states.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    2,469
    Thanks for all the good info in the thread. I forgot to mention I am from Canada. Initially I assumed I just need to supplement my CC/work benefits travel insurance with the rescue. Then I realized they don't cover any medical if I am injured doing an "extreme activity". Then I saw how complicated this whole insurance/rescue/network is. I went with what ACC recommends https://www.alpineclubofcanada.ca/we...Insurance.aspx

    GWS Whiteroom_Guardian.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
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    23,111
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    That isn't so. BSAR rescuers are unpaid professionals and not protected by good sam laws in many states.
    They are in your state. " Any person while acting as a volunteer member of a rescue unit, as defined in section 25-3.5-103 (11), C.R.S., notwithstanding the fact that such organization may recover actual costs incurred in the rendering of emergency care or assistance to a person, who in good faith renders emergency care or assistance without compensation at the place of an emergency or accident shall not be liable for any civil damages for acts or omissions in good faith." CO Rev Stat § 13-21-108 (2016) Volunteer ski patrol, even those who get free skiing, are also protected.

    Wyoming has a very similar law except that you are not protected for acts of gross negligence or willful misconduct.

    Caveat--this is America. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. Even if the law says you aren't liable it may take hiring a lawyer or even going to court to get the suit dismissed or a defense verdict. I know of cases where doctors were unsuccessfully sued for Good Sam cases. Maybe the lawyer was hoping the doc or their insurer would quickly settle for an amount less than a defense attorney's retainer.

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
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    22,431
    Anybody know anything about the AAC's change from Global Rescue to Redpoint for rescue and travel insurance?

    I am a bit confused now with the new company as to whether they change coverage significantly. In the past there was reasonably coverage if a member above the basic level. Now it seems you have to bump up pretty high to get coverage, or maybe I am just confused.

    50 plus years of climbing and skiing, are other questionable activities, and never even came close to needing it, but started carrying it via AAC when traveling to Europe for climbing and off piste skiing since rescue there is most often not free.

    Any more info of the Austrian AC for coverage, especially if needed here is the US?

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Posts
    4
    Such a feature would be very expensive, maybe your insurance covers the flight cost?

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