New Strive - paging ONK

[iriponsnow]

Somewhere on the interwebz I saw ONK say that the Strive skied as well as STH16 WTR & better than the STH16 MNC……

This got me thinking as I was going to horde STH16’s, but now am uncertain of MNC or WTR….. or bite the bullet & go Strive.

Who’s skied it?!

[kootenayskier]

Haven’t skied it, but did endure through the recent alpine binding panel discussion on Blister, which was effectively a promo piece for the Strive, and then did some reading. I took away that the Strive attempts to incorporate the best features of the STH: high elasticity via an in-line spring (though still slightly lower than the STH) in a lighter (15%, though compared to what?) lower centre of mass (40%, compared to what?, apparently their pros liked it), faster return to centre (how much and why?) with the same stack height as the STH, and with the same STH heel piece in the 16 DIN version. I’ve read that the demo versions are an advance, in that they mimic the standard binding position, but I’m assuming the performance changes are subtle enough, that with the same stance I won’t be able to tell the difference between the 16 DIN Strives and my STHs. The other quality of the STHs, which I appreciate and presume the Strives lack, is the manual toe height and wing adjustments. I’m torn whether to hoard or not.

[iriponsnow]

Well & the ONK comment has tossed me too. I thought the WTR & MNC variants "skied" the same but the MNC has a flip switch from firm/soft. I'm never a fan of gimmick stuff & am intrigued to here that Strive comes in a 16.

I have a 2023 Kendo w/ new WTR STH16's & am planning on getting another same Kendo.... may but a Strive16 on to see, but want clarity on this MNC loss of performance.

[kid-kapow]

... did endure through the recent alpine binding panel discussion on Blister, which was effectively a promo piece for the Strive...

I do not know what it is with Blister and Salomon. I remember when Jonathan reacted like Cody said something profound when he made the point that more suspension - aka what elasticity is - gives better grip and traction than less. Like, don't Blister publish bike reviews as well? Is it surprising that something that inhances once ability to stay in controll and maximize downward pressure facilitating grip actually does what it is intended to do?

I was kind of hoping for some actual debate on the pros and cons of different designs across multiple scenarios ( like, a discussion of this guide that is actually very informative), what binding delta was better in what scenarios and so on, but was left kinda dissapoined in the knowledge that a spring rated and adjusted to say din 10 is a 10 regardless of the range the spring can accomodate (again, duh).

Still, nice that they post free content of what is still a fairly new format / event.

I have nothing to add wrt Strive vs Shift vs STH though.

[iriponsnow]

I have nothing to add wrt Strive vs Shift vs STH though.

Woah, woah, woah...... listen we're not talking Shift here
Ya tear one toe of a ski & the TGR minions come out with pitchfork's & threaten to have Cody come kick my ass Highwaystar style

[GoldenBC]

I just skied the Strive Demo yesterday. It's been a long time since I skied an STH but I try out our Warden Demos once in a while. The Strive skis great. What does that mean? Fuck if I know. If a bindings ramp is good and I don't come out, it passes in my books. You can't really test the elasticity of a binding unless you pop out, and I didn't, so I guess that is good. The Shift repeatedly failed that test.

Most notably, the Strive heel feels way more confidence inspiring that the warden. It felt like less of a tinny shotgun going off and more like a pivot heelpiece easing into place. I would attribute that to elasticity and pivot placement? It felt less likely to auto eject you because you leaned forward a bit.

The biggest flaw, despite me using touring soles, is that this binding isn't compatible with a touring sole. Especially in the demo version.

[gregL]

Have skied the Strive demo maybe a dozen times this spring, pretty much all on bulletproof surfaces, and it skis great. Personally I have 2 sets of new STH2 16 WTR sitting downstairs "just in case."

[dcpnz]

Most notably, the Strive heel feels way more confidence inspiring that the warden. It felt like less of a tinny shotgun going off and more like a pivot heelpiece easing into place. I would attribute that to elasticity and pivot placement? It felt less likely to auto eject you because you leaned forward a bit.

and with the same STH heel piece in the 16 DIN version. .

What am I missing here?
If Wardens and Sth’s share same heel and Strive and STH share same heel then ??????

[iriponsnow]

Have skied the Strive demo maybe a dozen times this spring, pretty much all on bulletproof surfaces, and it skis great. Personally I have 2 sets of new STH2 16 WTR sitting downstairs "just in case."

This is what I'm thinking, how different is the flip switch MNC vs WTR vs Strive?

[J. Barron DeJong]

I do not know what it is with Blister and Salomon. I remember when Jonathan reacted like Cody said something profound when he made the point that more suspension - aka what elasticity is - gives better grip and traction than less. Like, don't Blister publish bike reviews as well? Is it surprising that something that inhances once ability to stay in controll and maximize downward pressure facilitating grip actually does what it is intended to do?

I was kind of hoping for some actual debate on the pros and cons of different designs across multiple scenarios ( like, a discussion of this guide that is actually very informative), what binding delta was better in what scenarios and so on, but was left kinda dissapoined in the knowledge that a spring rated and adjusted to say din 10 is a 10 regardless of the range the spring can accomodate (again, duh).

Still, nice that they post free content of what is still a fairly new format / event.

I have nothing to add wrt Strive vs Shift vs STH though.

I was disappointed with the Blister binding discussion as well. They are saying they’re going to be doing a binding comparison test, so hopefully something of more value comes from that.

[DumbIdeasOnly]

I was disappointed with the Blister binding discussion as well. They are saying they’re going to be doing a binding comparison test, so hopefully something of more value comes from that.

I haven’t watched the edited video, but I was there live. For what it’s worth, live it felt more like a bit of a debate between the Amer affiliated panelists and some of the other people on stage especially on some of the things that seemed more marketing-y they said. I definitely would agree a lot of the Q&A responses were stupid tautologies (of course 10 DIN bindings all pass the release standard for 10 DIN, it doesn’t necessarily follow they perform identically in all respects that matter to skiers as evidenced by the fact they spent an hour talking about how awesome their bindings are).

Re: the Strive - I tried some demos mounted with them at the Blister thing. Had an issue with an undesired release once in soft snow, but hard to know how much of that was demo binding setup and forward pressure issues vs. something with the design or my skiing (was in deep sloughy snow on a steep slope at the time it happened). I think this is possibly binding related because I have had undesirable releases in soft snow with Wardens and Shifts (Shifts I gave up on entirely as a result) and I’m not buying any Amer binding with MNC toes. So for me it’s pivots and STH WTR if that helps.

If you are generally happy with the MNC toes on other Amer products, I am going to speculate the Strive is a good upgrade.

[altacoup]

I’ve said it in other threads. But the current American heel piece used in the sth/warden/ and now strive is absolute garbage. In my current quiver I have old school sth, pivots and various tyrolia peak and attack bindings. My one pair of sth2 bindings I have to run my DIN 2 higher than normal in order to feel even mildly confident. Bindings test just fine on a machine. STH2 is the worst binding I’ve skied since marker twin cams. And the adjustable toe height and wings has always been a design flaw not a plus. No other binding randomly develops play due to screws backing out.


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[mr_pretzel]

I’ve said it in other threads. But the current American heel piece used in the sth/warden/ and now strive is absolute garbage. In my current quiver I have old school sth, pivots and various tyrolia peak and attack bindings. My one pair of sth2 bindings I have to run my DIN 2 higher than normal in order to feel even mildly confident. Bindings test just fine on a machine. STH2 is the worst binding I’ve skied since marker twin cams. And the adjustable toe height and wings has always been a design flaw not a plus. No other binding randomly develops play due to screws backing out.


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

Seriously I hate the adjustability, I’m never confident they’re ready to plug and play like pivots and it dissuades me from choosing skis with them on due to hassle

[kid-kapow]

Woah, woah, woah...... listen we're not talking Shift here

The Amer guy kept referring to it as being the toe piece they tried to emulate wrt ride feel / center of gravity thingy, but yeah, mentioning the Shift on here is usually a sure fire way of starting a shi(F)t show. Snicker.

Does the balance of the bindingchange with the entire weight savings being in the toe, or are both bindings to close to the mount point for it to matter? I can't say I notice much difference between pivot 14s and 15s

[iriponsnow]

The Amer guy kept referring to it as being the toe piece they tried to emulate wrt ride feel / center of gravity thingy, but yeah, mentioning the Shift on here is usually a sure fire way of starting a shi(F)t show. Snicker.

LMAO, cue ass whooping from Cody….. does it have same self ejecting mounting pattern in the toe as the shift?! If so I’m out.

Bonus of the Fifty! “Cody tracks down irip & beats him with a box of 10 DIN clamps!”


*for those not getting the joke- I got a pre release (literally) shi(f)t & mounted it to a carbon touring ski only to tear the toe off the center slider boot & bent the fuq out of it. Big S initially accused me of abusing the product?! Then settled on blaming the shop for forgetting to hook the center mount prior to installing the posterior 2 screws.

So either we’re to believe that the I did something grotesque or the 100 ppl who fondled em prior to skiing (mostly industry folks) missed that the binding was actually not flush to the ski, but sitting on the center slider. Big S pressured select websites to have my account pulled & threatened to have Cody (as if he cares) set me straight. Good grief.

[tuco]

I think the 'supervisor' is to blame!
He knows who he is

[ExoticSkis]

Skied a couple pairs of skis mounted with the new Strive for a bunch of runs... skied great.... pretty light, but not flimsy... Nice advancement for people who don't need a heavy-metal housing binding for their daily downhill-oriented antics.

No where near the torsional integrity of the metal-casing bindings...so hard-charging skiers will probably find the Strive a wimpy binding and not live as long under hard usage as the STH..etc.... just guessing....

[GoldenBC]

What am I missing here?
If Wardens and Sth’s share same heel and Strive and STH share same heel then ??????

I know. Not sure what other factor could affect this feeling. I will be playing with it all week and see what I can finger out.

[skisurfmirth]

Then… keeping hoarding 916s?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Pinned]

So what's the point of the Strive? Seems like they're trying to sell a cheaper to manufacture binding as if it's as good as a fully featured binding.

Just my 2 cents as the most average skier on the mountain, but Salomon bindings seem to only have gotten more mediocre and vague in recent iterations rather than better. STH2 WTR doesn't feel as good as older DIN only metal Salomons to me.

[onenerdykid]

Seriously I hate the adjustability, I’m never confident they’re ready to plug and play like pivots and it dissuades me from choosing skis with them on due to hassle

This is more of the point of the Strive vs. the STH2. Strive is an "automatic" GripWalk binding that doesn't need toe height adjustment when swapping between 5355 & GripWalk boots. The STH2 needs manual adjustment and set up when changing boots. The new Strive is more plug & play, like you said.

As to the skiing performance of the STH2 WTR, STH2 MNC, and Strive 16 - I like the STH2 WTR and Strive 16 more than the STH2 MNC only because the STH2 MNC rides a little higher than the others, due to the newer base the toe sits on. I'm oddly sensitive to ramp angle changes and for me the STH2 WTR and new Strive ski better for me. Depending on what boot is being used and your personal preferences, I'm sure most people get along just fine with the STH2 MNC.

Ultimately, I'm looking forward to my Strive 16s showing up because I don't want to keep adjusting toe heights when I swap between my Redsters and Ultra XTDs. A couple clicks of forward pressure adjustment is a lot less time consuming than doing that and always adjusting toe heights & wings.

[iriponsnow]

^ First, thank you for your help on this matter. I had not realized that the MNC toe was taller & incorrectly arrived at the conclusion that it was the toggle switch that somehow made the ride more gauge. Can you comment on the MNC / WTR height differences?

A plug & play toe makes a lot of sense. I’ve experienced some wiggle in my STH16s but chalked it up to more of an issue of age. The larger issue I’ve had w GripWalk is even in same model & BSL boots, year to year the profile was different & I always needed a screwdriver. Will the Strive self adjust for minor variance?

I’m spoiled getting ~80-90+ days on snow in the winter & always like a tuned set up, I’ve got one set of ‘23 skis mounted w a WTR, may put a Strive on identical ski to compare.

Thanks

[GoldenBC]

What am I missing here?
If Wardens and Sth’s share same heel and Strive and STH share same heel then ??????

So the heels are not identical. It is obviously meant to be the same principle though. The mouldings are different, the big rivet on the side is in a different spot, the heel track is waaaaay tighter, and audibly it makes a different sound when cycling through. Much damper. It doesn't feel as "clangy" when you snap the heel up either. Who knows, it could be the sound, but it feels much better than the Warden.

I'm talking purely about the demo versions of the strive and warden.

[doebedoe]

The warden demo has been my go to over the past few seasons. Any boot, fuck with mount point, reliable.

I skied the Strive demo in shitfuck conditions for a few days. If durability is as good as the Warden -- it'll be my future default binding for skis I want to ski with any boot and lend out to friends. Dampness, power and (as I tested a few times) release felt just as good as Wardens. Don't have to fuck with adjusting toe, and the lower stand height is notable.

[SoVT Joey]

Hmmm. Amer is just killing it. Literally. Ya know what doesn’t suck? MDV.