Check Out Our Shop
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Binding Rec for Fast & Aggressive Skiing

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    9

    Binding Rec for Fast & Aggressive Skiing

    Hello!

    Been a long time lurker but first time posting!

    I just purchased a new pair of 4FRNT Hoji 4-Lock 177cm after years of wanting to get them. I am really stoked and can't wait to get on them.
    I lost touch with all the new advancements in binding technology for the last 2 years and I am looking for opinions on what bindings to pair them with.

    A bit of background: I am 177cm tall and 67 kg. I am a very advanced skier (skiing for 23 years) and I prefer to ski big mountain lines with high speeds and long turns and occasional cliff drops, but will also be skiing forests and trees in Romania and also other locations in the EU (Alps). I am coming from the Liberty Helix 182cm (2016) paired with the Marker Tour F12, which has been my only freeride/resort off-piste ski for the last 5 years.

    I want the Hoji's to be my go to exclusive freeride touring ski. I am therefore looking for a binding that can withstand an aggressive skiing style and feel great on the way down but still be light enough for extensive touring. I've seen Hoji runs exclusively on Dynafit and he slays big mountain lines and sends huge drops. I didn't know you can charge that hard on tech bindings.. they must have came a long way. The 4FRNT team recommended to go with the Dynafit Rotation 14 and they said Hoji also believes in it's performance.

    Other alternative tech bindings with good downhill performance, I found whilst researching quite a bit are:
    ATK Freerider 16 / 14 - They seem super well build and heard a lot of good things about them, with great downhill performance for its weight.
    Salomon MTN - Also heard a lot of praise from them, and seen that Cody Townsend has them on almost all his pairs.
    Marker Alpinist - Seems to be in the same category as the Salomon MTN, which heard it also has good downhill performance as well with the highest rating on Gear Lab.

    Is it indeed possible to charge aggressive big mountain lines with tech bindings for the long run without performance or safety issues? I would prefer to go tech route to save up some weight if I could find a binding that feels great and solid on the downhill. I know it's a tradeoff but looking forward for your opinions.

    Thanks a lot!
    Marco

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    SLC, Utah
    Posts
    4,646
    ATK FR14/16

    /thread

    (for the love of god don't get rotations. way too heavy, way too complex, and they don't ski nearly as well as atk)

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Grandma's Basement
    Posts
    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    ATK FR14/16

    /thread

    (for the love of god don't get rotations. way too heavy, way too complex, and they don't ski nearly as well as atk)

    Agreed - Dynafit had the whole market cornered, and then never innovated. As far as I am concerned their current lineup is garbage.



    *************************************************

    I think you've nailed down the obvious contenders, but if you havent seen this article from Blister you should give it a read:

    https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...nding-shootout

    Personally, I've heard some durability issues with the Alpinist, so I'd steer clear. I'd also steer clear of the MTN as that binding doesnt have any heel elasticity, and doesnt provide great power transfer through the heel.

    Additionally, if you think you may take these skis into a resort, or want something that will be a little safer while hucking, I'd also strongly consider taking a look at the Tecton. Its lighter than the kingpin or shift, and has more suspension on the toes and more power transfer than a regular touring binding.

    Personally if I were you, on the short list would be: ATK/Voyager 14, G3 Zed, or Tecton.

    Having skied all three extensively, they are all excellent options.

    I am currently on a pair of 187 Hojis with Zeds and they're awesome, have had no issues with prerelease, risers are easy to use, offers excellent power transfer, and is probably the easiest binding Ive ever used for transitions. Additionally, G3 crampons are maybe the easiest to use of the bunch - removable adapter that bolts onto the toe piece, that has big oversized lugs that makes throwing on crampons a breeze. So, if it were me - I'd go Zed over ATK (this comment is definitely going to be refuted among people on this thread)

    Lastly, and probably most critically - the Hoji skis quite short for its length, and doesnt offer a ton of float compared to other 112 waisted skis. Based on the description that you're providing on your skiing type, I would seriously consider getting the 184cm before you mount up the 177cm.


    Hope this helps, and feel free to reach out if you have other questions.
    "Poop is funny" - Frank Reynolds

    www.experiencedgear.net

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    2,607
    ATK makes good bindings but it's definitely worth considering others. I don't think any mainstream binding stands out durability-wise. ATK seems to have the best rep but I have had a friend break the Raider heelpiece clean off the track. I also don't think the Alpinists are any less reliable than the competition. They are all about the same - generally solid but occasionally fail just like anything else.

    I am an ATK fan but you should still consider other options. They are super expensive, and you could save a lot and sacrifice not that much performance. Most of the Raiders and Freeraiders have 11.5mm of ramp angle which is kind of a lot, so that is somehthing to be aware of. ATK makes an aftermarket 4mm toe shim or you could make one or have one custom made, but that is an added expense to an already expensive binding. The FR16 has the shim built in, so ramp on that one and the Movement-branded Raiders is closer to 7mm.

    The Marker Alpinist has the smoothest ride of any tech binding, largely due to the carbon-infused toe piece that absorbs some vibration (read the Blister review for more). It has a very flat 2mm ramp angle, similar to many alpine-bindings and a gapless heel which provides the most consistent release characteristics. They can also be found for $250-$300 brand new from european sites.

    The Ski Trab Titan Vario.2 is also worth considering, the unique toe design absorbs some vibration and is the most reliable tech toe available in my opinion. It also has a gapless heel with more lateral elasticity than anything else on the market. It has 8mm ramp, but you can raise the toe piece if you want using a B&D shim, and its cheaper than most Raider models.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
    Posts
    4,924
    I ski steep, committing couloirs and I've been on mtn for a long time.

    Great, solid binding.
    Absolutely not true about power transfer at the heel.
    If you have brakes, the heel rests on them instead of texting in the pins.

    Also, the lack of electricity is common to all pin bindings.

    Some have a spring in the back, but they get not provide elasticity at all.

    And the mtn had the strongest toe springs, so you don't have to lock the toes.

    Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
    Posts
    4,924
    Btw, i hear good things about the alpinist, but the highest tour setting on the risers is kind of low, do you won't be able to skin a steep skintrack

    Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    586
    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    Also, the lack of electricity is common to all pin bindings.
    Electric bindings. Don't you love autocorrupt

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    11,523
    Electric bindings. Want.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
    Posts
    4,924
    Yep, Google thinks it knows best.

    Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,473

    Binding Rec for Fast & Aggressive Skiing

    Given thread title and
    Quote Originally Posted by marcomarinescu View Post
    big mountain lines with high speeds and long turns and occasional cliff drops,
    Marker Duke PT

    Quote Originally Posted by marcomarinescu View Post
    a binding that can withstand an aggressive skiing style and feel great on the way down but still be light enough for extensive touring.
    What’s light enough? Tecton then I guess.

    But if you’re really pushing the limits then does weight really matter (vs safety/reliability) ?
    Last edited by dcpnz; 03-23-2022 at 09:52 AM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by rfconroy View Post
    Agreed - Dynafit had the whole market cornered, and then never innovated. As far as I am concerned their current lineup is garbage.



    *************************************************

    I think you've nailed down the obvious contenders, but if you havent seen this article from Blister you should give it a read:

    https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...nding-shootout

    Personally, I've heard some durability issues with the Alpinist, so I'd steer clear. I'd also steer clear of the MTN as that binding doesnt have any heel elasticity, and doesnt provide great power transfer through the heel.

    Additionally, if you think you may take these skis into a resort, or want something that will be a little safer while hucking, I'd also strongly consider taking a look at the Tecton. Its lighter than the kingpin or shift, and has more suspension on the toes and more power transfer than a regular touring binding.

    Personally if I were you, on the short list would be: ATK/Voyager 14, G3 Zed, or Tecton.

    Having skied all three extensively, they are all excellent options.

    I am currently on a pair of 187 Hojis with Zeds and they're awesome, have had no issues with prerelease, risers are easy to use, offers excellent power transfer, and is probably the easiest binding Ive ever used for transitions. Additionally, G3 crampons are maybe the easiest to use of the bunch - removable adapter that bolts onto the toe piece, that has big oversized lugs that makes throwing on crampons a breeze. So, if it were me - I'd go Zed over ATK (this comment is definitely going to be refuted among people on this thread)

    Lastly, and probably most critically - the Hoji skis quite short for its length, and doesnt offer a ton of float compared to other 112 waisted skis. Based on the description that you're providing on your skiing type, I would seriously consider getting the 184cm before you mount up the 177cm.


    Hope this helps, and feel free to reach out if you have other questions.

    Thanks for all the detailed info!

    Yeah, if I go the pin route ATK Freerider 14 or the G3 Zed are high on my list, but I keep hearing ATK is one of the most capable pin binding for freeride. As far as I've seen ATK really stepped up the game in pin bindings lately leaving Dynafit well behind.. interesting!

    Will also research the Tecton a bit, since I have also heard good things about it as a hybrid binding.


    Regarding the Hoji's length, I am coming from the Liberty Helix 182cm which skies well in resort, but in big mountain lines it often feels clunky and not that responsive, with the edge catching the snow a lot of times when turning and throws me off balance. In tight trees it's almost like I'm forcing it to turn.. very demanding and not fun at all. I thought the 177cm Hoji would be easier to navigate in tight trees and forests, since I will be doing a fair mix between big mountain and tree lines.

    4FRNT team recommended told me that I should definitely go for the 177 given the info provided, but I got worried when you said they ski short and should have went with 184... I would have gotten the 184, but it was sold out. I really liked the improvements on this year's model and was looking forward to it and decided to pull the trigger. Since I am lighter than average (143 lbs) Would my lightweight balance out the shorter length? What do you think?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
    Posts
    8,426
    Quote Originally Posted by marcomarinescu View Post
    4FRNT team recommended told me that I should definitely go for the 177 given the info provided, but I got worried when you said they ski short and should have went with 184... I would have gotten the 184, but it was sold out. I really liked the improvements on this year's model and was looking forward to it and decided to pull the trigger. Since I am lighter than average (143 lbs) Would my lightweight balance out the shorter length? What do you think?
    FWIW, I am essentially the same height and weight as you and have hated every ski I've tried that was shorter than 180cm. I have not skied the Hoji but I would absolutely buy the 184cm if I was getting that ski. My touring skis include 184cm ON3P Billy Goat Tours, 182cm ON#P Woodsman 110 Tours, 187cm Praxis Protests, and 184cm Praxis Freerides. I've used G3 Ion LTs, G3 Zeds, and Salomon MTNs and have been happy with all of them.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by Benneke10 View Post

    The Ski Trab Titan Vario.2 is also worth considering, the unique toe design absorbs some vibration and is the most reliable tech toe available in my opinion. It also has a gapless heel with more lateral elasticity than anything else on the market. It has 8mm ramp, but you can raise the toe piece if you want using a B&D shim, and its cheaper than most Raider models.

    Thanks for your input! I will also have a look at the Ski Trab Titan Vario 2 as well. Never heard of it and it surely looks promising. They also seem to have some interesting inovations. Good to know all the info regarding the ATKs and the Alpinist, will take all these into consideration!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    9
    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    I ski steep, committing couloirs and I've been on mtn for a long time.
    Great, solid binding.
    Absolutely not true about power transfer at the heel.
    If you have brakes, the heel rests on them instead of texting in the pins.
    That's a great info, thanks! I also heard a lot of praise from the MTNs as well, being Cody Townsend's binding of choice and he rips all kinds of terrain. Does it feel rigid or comfortable? Also did you experience any pre-release in the steep couloirs?

    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    Btw, i hear good things about the alpinist, but the highest tour setting on the risers is kind of low, do you won't be able to skin a steep skintrack
    I kinda have mixed feelings about the alpinist right now. Some people say it's a great binding, lightweight and low cost but I have also heard stories with technical issues with the risers and breaks, so I'm not too sure about it. Also construction wise looks simple but personally it isn't inspiring any trust for fast charging freeride style.

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpnz View Post
    Given thread title and
    Marker Duke PT

    What’s light enough? Tecton then I guess.

    But if you’re really pushing the limits then does weight really matter (vs safety/reliability) ?
    Light enough would be middle ground (500/600g) so in this case the Tecton would fit the bill pretty good. Will have to research it a bit more, since I don't know it that well.

    Marker Duke PT seems a great choice and has come a long way from the original, but we are entering 1000g territory and in this case I would definitely go for the Look Pivots with Cast for a real bomb proof setup. I have a friend who simply swears by them and has them mounted on all his skies for all his freeride duties. He says it makes the ski way more playful and the downhill feel is phenomenal. We are talking about 45 mm of elastic travel after all and probably the best release there is out there.

    I am also highly inclined to go this route, if I won't settle for a tech binding that could also work out.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •