OFFICIAL MLB 2022 THREAD

[ex-powderbroker]

I will super stan the shit out of this thread until he hits 62 and I can move on to Altuve knocking them out of the playoffs again.

[Supermoon]

everyone loves Ohtani! I would love to have Ohtani in the bronx!

You guys are crazy. Last year Ohtani had 9 war and beat everyone. This year he has 8.9 and will outdo his mark from last year with 2 more starts and lots of at bats. But Judge is at 10 and counting!

And as far as Yankee Stadium goes, it is built for left handed dead pull hitters. Judge hits them the other way 90000 feet. How can you say that WAR is misunderstood when you don't understand the difference between the lines at Yankee Stadium?

This is fucking bullshit.

People lean on WAR like it’s infallible, but it was just made up by a couple of nerds with their own set of biases and experiences, it’s not like the word of God. The A’s back in the day used it to separate players in a novel way, but the way baseball leans on it and all their weird spin-offs as the only way to evaluate players is just group think.

As far as WAR this year, I would argue 9 WAR on a 65 win team could be considered more valuable than 10 WAR on a 100 win team.

And I absolutely love Judge. I think he’s a generational talent and by all’s counts is a good dude, what I am sick of is the constant wall to wall coverage on ESPN like it’s the only interesting story when there are tons of great storylines this year that are just as significant historically, and much more surprising.

[Brownski]

Here’s the bleachers in the eighth inning last night

[ex-powderbroker]

Aaron Judge leads in:

Runs
Home Runs
RBI
Walks
Average
Slugging
On base
OPS+
TB

Ohtani leads in:
Wild Pitches

You can use Runs Created, WPA, etc, I don't see a case for Ohtani this year outside of "I hate the Yankees".

Ohtani has the benefit of Trout behind him, did you see the garbage that the Yankees had for an offense this season? He would have had 80 as a Dodger!

[Supermoon]

So funny story about this ☝️

When I saw my game in Anaheim this year Ohtani hit two home runs and Trout hit another. They were up 10-5 in the 7th and lost 11-10. What a waste. They should start relegation in the MLB just like in soccer

[Brownski]

It was 2016. It was hotter than balls at the stadium. So we went to the museum (air conditioning) to cool off. My kids loved the museum back then. But my older son was listening to the game closely and when a couple of rookies that had just come up were about to hit he insisted we go back down and not miss it. These guys had real potential he said. Sound up for Junior’s insightful commentary

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Ci0xK...d=NzNkNDdiOGI=

[Supermoon]

That’s rad

[Danno]

Aaron Judge leads in:

Runs
Home Runs
RBI
Walks
Average
Slugging
On base
OPS+
TB

Ohtani leads in:
Wild Pitches

You can use Runs Created, WPA, etc, I don't see a case for Ohtani this year outside of "I hate the Yankees".

Ohtani has the benefit of Trout behind him, did you see the garbage that the Yankees had for an offense this season? He would have had 80 as a Dodger!

The case for Ohtani is like I said, he's one of the 5 best hitters in the AL AND one of the 5 best pitchers in the AL. That's insane. And their combined WARs are pretty comparable, IF you back out the weird negative that DHs get, which makes no sense to me.

If it was solely about what they do at the plate, of course it's a no brainer, but it's not. But again, I think Judge is going to win easily.

[ex-powderbroker]

I agree with Supermoon that WAR is not the end all be all but it's a useful stat to compare players. But offhand saying this guy is top 5, that is kind of ridiculous. Based on what? He is not having as good a season as he had last year, so is this some sort of residual thing? Are Cabrera and Pujols still top 5?

In the AL according to batter WAR on fanGraphs

1. Aaron Judge: 10.7
...
24. Shohei Ohtani (drops to 44 across MLB)


Pitching WAR
3. Shohei Ohtani (6 MLB)


The next best batter WAR after Judge is Goldschmidt with 7 btw. In a season that has offense way down across baseball what he is doing is that much more incredible. I have seen one triple crown in my life and might get a second one with this huge guy carrying his team to the finish. It's amazing!

And why does Judge not get credit for 76 games in Center Field if Ohtani gets credit for pitching? And I agree that it is absolutely remarkable, but the combination of the two seasons he is having (neither particularly historic or even the best this year) are so far from what Judge is doing.

So saying that you think Judge will win (but that you prefer someone with an inferior season) is bizarre. But here we are, with how many people saying that?

[The SnowShow]

Do the Sox pitch to Judge? I think not. Nobody wants to be the one who gives up No. 61, especially not the Sox.

[Danno]

I agree with Supermoon that WAR is not the end all be all but it's a useful stat to compare players. But offhand saying this guy is top 5, that is kind of ridiculous. Based on what? He is not having as good a season as he had last year, so is this some sort of residual thing? Are Cabrera and Pujols still top 5?

In the AL according to batter WAR on fanGraphs

1. Aaron Judge: 10.7
...
24. Shohei Ohtani (drops to 44 across MLB)


Pitching WAR
3. Shohei Ohtani (6 MLB)


The next best batter WAR after Judge is Goldschmidt with 7 btw. In a season that has offense way down across baseball what he is doing is that much more incredible. I have seen one triple crown in my life and might get a second one with this huge guy carrying his team to the finish. It's amazing!

And why does Judge not get credit for 76 games in Center Field if Ohtani gets credit for pitching? And I agree that it is absolutely remarkable, but the combination of the two seasons he is having (neither particularly historic or even the best this year) are so far from what Judge is doing.

So saying that you think Judge will win (but that you prefer someone with an inferior season) is bizarre. But here we are, with how many people saying that?

I was using ESPN stats. For offense, I used the crazy stat called OPS, because Ohtani gets dinged for being a DH with WAR. He's top 5 in OPS. And I'm pretty sure the fangraphs stats you cite include fielding. Because look at Ohtani stats and compare them to the 23 ahead of him.

[BmillsSkier]

Put me in the camp of those confused why a top 5 player on BOTH sides of the game is not the best in the league.

[ex-powderbroker]

I was using ESPN stats. For offense, I used the crazy stat called OPS, because Ohtani gets dinged for being a DH with WAR. He's top 5 in OPS. And I'm pretty sure the fangraphs stats you cite include fielding. Because look at Ohtani stats and compare them to the 23 ahead of him.

OPS kind of sucks since on base is worth more than slugging, but sure. Judge has a 215 OPS+ compared to Ohtani's 149 (10th in baseball)

Runs created (no ding on the dh for WAR there), 161 - 103

Batting Wins 8.2 to 3.5

runs created 161 to 103

Adj batting runs 83 to not on top 10

win probability added 7.6 to not on top 10

Judge is number 1 in all of the categories, like every single offensive category and Ohtani is not on the top 10 for adjusted era which is the most important pitching stat.

Ohtani is a really fucking good player, but not the MVP this year. Sorry Yankee haters.

Put me in the camp of those confused why a top 5 player on BOTH sides of the game is not the best in the league.

Because he is just having a regular good not great year hitting and he is not among the top pitchers making him NOT the mvp.

[BmillsSkier]

Thanks for the whiteboard material, dipshit Elvis Andrus!

(From yesterday) https://www.coveringthecorner.com/pl...66251/crumbled

Guardos SWEEP the BlackSox to all-but tie up the Division by completing the 3 game set in Chitown tonight.

Most fun team and story in baseball this year by a long shot.

ROLL GUARDS

[Danno]

Per baseball reference, he's top 10 in MLB (not AL) in OPS+, runs created, batting wins, offensive win %age. I don't actually know what those last few are but I think you cited them so I did.

Judge is first in all those categories. By a lot. Monster season.

But you said Ohtani is not among the top pitchers? What?

He's 4th in WAR for all of MLB, 2nd in the AL.

We have no means or track record of evaluating how to compare a player who is extremely successful as a hitter and a pitcher, top 5 in the league at both but definitely not number 1 at either, against a guy who IS number 1 by a significant margin. Incredible dominance at hitting or being merely excellent at hitting and excellent at pitching.

The intangibles and narrative give it to Judge, that's the way the vote will clearly go, and he's earned it. But the people who say Ohtani aren't clearly wrong, which is what you think.

[ex-powderbroker]

Per baseball reference, he's top 10 in MLB (not AL) in OPS+, runs created, batting wins, offensive win %age. I don't actually know what those last few are but I think you cited them so I did.

Judge is first in all those categories. By a lot. Monster season.

But you said Ohtani is not among the top pitchers? What?

He's 4th in WAR for all of MLB, 2nd in the AL.

We have no means or track record of evaluating how to compare a player who is extremely successful as a hitter and a pitcher, top 5 in the league at both but definitely not number 1 at either, against a guy who IS number 1 by a significant margin. Incredible dominance at hitting or being merely excellent at hitting and excellent at pitching.

The intangibles and narrative give it to Judge, that's the way the vote will clearly go, and he's earned it. But the people who say Ohtani aren't clearly wrong, which is what you think.

For me, I look at innings and ERA+. He is also not a qualified starter due to too few innings pitched so maybe that was messing things up on some lists. Lack of innings shouldn't be a deal breaker because closers have won before but Ohtani is 48th in innings AND even if you draw the line down to there you could make any number of cases for a few pitchers above him, and especially one of the Houston guys (Verlander ridiculous ERA, Valdez the most quality starts in a row in history).

https://www.espn.com/mlb/features/cyyoung

[Supermoon]

Well neither he nor Judge is going to break any records, so maybe we should be talking about another NY player who did. Luis Guillorme just set the record for most HBP ever. A truly valuable MVP.

https://www.mlb.com/mets/video/luis-...y-pitch-qaa6pt

106!! Holy shit

[irul&ublo]

Suck it Sux

[Woodsy]

I have never wanted an opposing player to hit 2 HRs in Dodger Stadium in a series before.

I do this weekend and I am not alone. That place will explode when/if Pujols gets 700. Lotta love for Tio Albert in LA and the stands will be full of Pujols jerseys and "Tio Hugs" and "Tio Albert" t shirts.

Shit I wouldnt be surprised if half the Dodger line up is waiting for him behind the plate.

[Supermoon]

Yeah. Such an incredible career going by a little unnoticed. Hope he gets 700, too.

[ex-powderbroker]

Pujols is an all time great and I hope he joins the 700 club. What is really amazing though is that ten (!!!) years ago he had 475. So he was both one of the best ever at his peak and also pretty good and durable for a long time. From 01-12 his ops+ was 168, and Ohtani's this season is 150. So is Ohtani great because he is right now (almost) as good as average peak Pujols? Or is Pujols great because for more than a decade his average season was even better than this supposed mvp year from Ohtani? Hmm.

[Danno]

Pujols is an all time great and I hope he joins the 700 club. What is really amazing though is that ten (!!!) years ago he had 475. So he was both one of the best ever at his peak and also pretty good and durable for a long time. From 01-12 his ops+ was 168, and Ohtani's this season is 165. So is Ohtani great because he is right now as good as average peak Pujols? Or is Pujols great because for more than a decade his average season was as good as this supposed mvp year from Ohtani? Hmm.

I started reading your post and was like "yay, he's moved on from his angry obsession over Ohtani!" And then I was disappoint.

Albert is an all time great who had one of the longest greatest runs in MLB history; he was truly great for that entire period. So anyone who matches that run for even one year was truly great for that one year. An OPS+ of 160 is great, period. Any player who has that for a full season had a great season at the plate. Any player who can do that for an extended run had a great career. Any player who can do that for 12 years? An all time great.

[no need to bring up how Judge is crushing it, we all know, kthxbye]

[ex-powderbroker]

I believe "all time great" was the phrase I used when talking about Albert's first 11 seasons. Dude could have hung it up right then and been in the conversation for greatest hitters of all time.

3x MVP
3x runner up in 11 seasons!

[Danno]

I believe "all time great" was the phrase I used when talking about Albert's first 11 seasons. Dude could have hung it up right then and been in the conversation for greatest hitters of all time.

3x MVP
3x runner up in 11 seasons!

exactly, we're in agreement that Albert's first 11 seasons were all time, one of the greatest stretches ever seen; as you note 3 MVPs and 3 runner ups (it was actually 4 runner-ups), and a 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 9th for good measure. So if Ohtani matched Pujols' OPS+ average for just one season, that means he had a great season, right? What am I missing?

[Brownski]

I don’t think anybody said Outani isn’t having a great season. It’s just that Judge is head and shoulders above him.
heh heh