Bibs.....again

[jbrine]

I have TNF futurelight bibs and love the weight, fit, pockets, and vent layout (inside with mesh, outside direct), but have been utterly disappointed in the waterproofing. For $600 MSRP I expect a lot more, glad we got them on a proform... I am a bigger guy and these fit my frame really well (5'10" and 210LBS).

I have done a Nikwax DWR wash and spray treatment and they are okay, but for resort use they wet out on the thighs in a couple hours on the lifts in CO.

[mrkbrnblm]

Few comments for anyone looking. First, I think a 2-pant quiver is critical if you're touring. I tour 90% of the time in OR Trail Breaker Bibs and they're incredible. Very breathable, ventable, and waterproof in the areas that matter (knees, ankles, butt). I also use them 50% of the time I'm riding lifts (any day other than very windy, rainy, or snowy ones). My second pair is an Arc'teryx Beta LT that I would also highly recommend. This is my second pair. The last pair lasted 13 years. I probably could have had Arc warranty my old pair, but felt I'd gotten my money's worth and should support them by buying another pair. I also consider Mammut, Patagonia, and Norrona and all had good options. I found the Mammut pants to fit very weirdly but really liked the design and materials. Everything else seemed to be in a second tier in terms of quality.

Regarding the Trew Capow stuff... i skied with the Capow guides 2 seasons ago and asked them what they thought of the trew kit that they all had to wear. Overwhelming response seemed to be they love the folks at Trew, but that the quality and durability was not as good as the premium brands (Arc, Patagonia, etc). They also seem to use very heavy fabrics. Just hold a pair of 3-layer gore-tex Trew bibs vs. a pair of Mammut or Arcteryx ones and you'll see what i mean. There's just a lot more substance to the fabric. Maybe that makes them more durable, in theory, but the texture of the fabric seem to catch a lot of dirt and their kits all looked dirty and abraded (granted, they're wearing them pretty much every day, so perhaps durability is comparable). The thick face fabric also absorbs water the second your DWR treatment starts to wear. That doesn't make it less waterproof, but it makes it 0% breathable (the waterproofing of the GT membrane keeps working, but the breathability is lost 'cause the vapor pressure difference isn't high enough after the face fabric is saturated to push the moisture inside your jacket/pants to the outside).

But long story short, softshell pants are way better than hardshells almost all of the time (even if you run cold, as I do), and the OR Trailbreakers are the best I've found in that department.

[californiagrown]

Few comments for anyone looking. First, I think a 2-pant quiver is critical if you're touring. I tour 90% of the time in OR Trail Breaker Bibs and they're incredible. Very breathable, ventable, and waterproof in the areas that matter (knees, ankles, butt). I also use them 50% of the time I'm riding lifts (any day other than very windy, rainy, or snowy ones). My second pair is an Arc'teryx Beta LT that I would also highly recommend. This is my second pair. The last pair lasted 13 years. I probably could have had Arc warranty my old pair, but felt I'd gotten my money's worth and should support them by buying another pair. I also consider Mammut, Patagonia, and Norrona and all had good options. I found the Mammut pants to fit very weirdly but really liked the design and materials. Everything else seemed to be in a second tier in terms of quality.

Regarding the Trew Capow stuff... i skied with the Capow guides 2 seasons ago and asked them what they thought of the trew kit that they all had to wear. Overwhelming response seemed to be they love the folks at Trew, but that the quality and durability was not as good as the premium brands (Arc, Patagonia, etc). They also seem to use very heavy fabrics. Just hold a pair of 3-layer gore-tex Trew bibs vs. a pair of Mammut or Arcteryx ones and you'll see what i mean. There's just a lot more substance to the fabric. Maybe that makes them more durable, in theory, but the texture of the fabric seem to catch a lot of dirt and their kits all looked dirty and abraded (granted, they're wearing them pretty much every day, so perhaps durability is comparable). The thick face fabric also absorbs water the second your DWR treatment starts to wear. That doesn't make it less waterproof, but it makes it 0% breathable (the waterproofing of the GT membrane keeps working, but the breathability is lost 'cause the vapor pressure difference isn't high enough after the face fabric is saturated to push the moisture inside your jacket/pants to the outside).

But long story short, softshell pants are way better than hardshells almost all of the time (even if you run cold, as I do), and the OR Trailbreakers are the best I've found in that department.

I think they updated the capow fabric last season or the one before. what i have, this last season's stock, is a pretty smooth face fabric. Interesting that folks who have a ton of say in the form, fit and materials still arent real happy with the final product.

Lightweight, waterproof, durable. Pick 2?

[DarthMarkus]

I have TNF futurelight bibs and love the weight, fit, pockets, and vent layout (inside with mesh, outside direct), but have been utterly disappointed in the waterproofing. For $600 MSRP I expect a lot more, glad we got them on a proform... I am a bigger guy and these fit my frame really well (5'10" and 210LBS).

I have done a Nikwax DWR wash and spray treatment and they are okay, but for resort use they wet out on the thighs in a couple hours on the lifts in CO.

Curious if you got the large size. Depending on the day, sometimes they can feel slightly short on me.

Waterproofing is a bit different. I don't think the pant relies much on any sort of DWR out of the factory. Or if it does, it comes out pretty quick. Similar experience on lifts, where the fabric on my quads gets a little wet. But I've never actually gotten moisture on the inside of the pant, as I think the gortex is doing its job.

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

I have TNF futurelight bibs and love the weight, fit, pockets, and vent layout (inside with mesh, outside direct), but have been utterly disappointed in the waterproofing. For $600 MSRP I expect a lot more, glad we got them on a proform... I am a bigger guy and these fit my frame really well (5'10" and 210LBS).

I have done a Nikwax DWR wash and spray treatment and they are okay, but for resort use they wet out on the thighs in a couple hours on the lifts in CO.

futurelight is notorious for loosing waterproofing. My friend works in a outdoor shop and their owner purchased futurelight clothes for all employees. I spoke to many of them and they all told that first 1-2 weeks futurelight provides wow-effect, however right after that dwr starts wearing out, clothes soak badly and none of the 3rd party dwr treatments restore it completely

[Stuntmonkey]

I forgot to mention I tried the Sabres on and they fit okay, not the greatest. Can't justify the price tbh. I'll see what they have when pro deals come out in the fall.

Otherwise I'm leaning towards the becs, baker bibs or BD recons.

Edit - Baker bibs are on sale for $172 right now. LOL.

2nd edit - Anybody have feedback on the Baker Perm bibs?

[bry]

futurelight is notorious for loosing waterproofing. My friend works in a outdoor shop and their owner purchased futurelight clothes for all employees. I spoke to many of them and they all told that first 1-2 weeks futurelight provides wow-effect, however right after that dwr starts wearing out, clothes soak badly and none of the 3rd party dwr treatments restore it completely

I wear them sometimes on sunny days with zero chance of precip, low wind. Wind cuts through as well. Opposite of foul weather gear I suppose.

[Sylvan]

Super intrigued by the arcteryx pro guide stuff….seems it’s the old made in Canada burly stuff that the Asian made goods are not.

If you can swing grabbing a pair they are well made; would love to help but I ain't well connected. Looks like the only non-proform shell/bibs, still made in BC, is the Alpha SV stuff. Bibs wouldn't work for me, but the jacket is super nice, if you don't mind napoleon pockets.

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

Edit - Baker bibs are on sale for $172 right now. LOL.

2nd edit - Anybody have feedback on the Baker Perm bibs?

yeah, they've been on backcountry for 150$ for couple of months now... I used them for 2 seasons - they are OK. Material is bombproof for sure, after 140+ days they are still in very good shape. However, right out of the box waterproofing is not even near gore-tex or derzimax. Plus there is something with this material they use, that makes snow stick to it, so if it's powder day - prepare to look like a snowball. I now use them when I'm skiing somewhere dry. Otherwise you just soak after couple of hours

[phatty]

If anyone is looking at Trew bibs, Instagram is running a deal for an extra 20% the sale price if you check out through the Instagram app. Coupon is good thru June 16. Brought Capow price down to ~$200 shipped. I think I'm going to pull the trigger.

[tang]

Tried today (6-11) but that insta 20% didn’t pop up for me

[phatty]

Tried today (6-11) but that insta 20% didn’t pop up for me

Search for Trew and click the View Shop button. It showed up for me there again.

[Stuntmonkey]

yeah, they've been on backcountry for 150$ for couple of months now... I used them for 2 seasons - they are OK. Material is bombproof for sure, after 140+ days they are still in very good shape. However, right out of the box waterproofing is not even near gore-tex or derzimax. Plus there is something with this material they use, that makes snow stick to it, so if it's powder day - prepare to look like a snowball. I now use them when I'm skiing somewhere dry. Otherwise you just soak after couple of hours

That's really disappointing to hear. Dang. The search continues.

[Cocximus]

Has anyone tried the Rab Khroma Kinetic Bib? The phrase "the protection of a hardshell with the comfort of a softshell" is often used, but it's usually just average. The only bibs that truly lived up to this were the Strafe Gellanots. I even used them for my July volcano skiing and they performed exceptionally well. Another pair I've used are the EB Freshline, which are pretty good overall. The Event fabric is genuinely waterproof; I've sat on wet Pacific snow without getting wet. The soft fabric on the chest breathes well. However, my favorite feature is the two stacked pockets on each thigh and the two chest pockets. One holds the beacon comfortably, and the other fits passes. The single large pocket that the Khroma and most other bibs have can be uncomfortable as it keeps the beacon in the middle. So, is the Khroma fabric worth the trade-off of fewer pockets compared to the Freshline?

[tenB]

That's really disappointing to hear. Dang. The search continues.

I’ve had the opposite experience with Bakers and Chemical pants. Bomber, breathe well and waterproofing is about as good as anything 50 days in, in the pnw. Experience with several pairs, hundreds of days in each. Regarding snow collecting on knees, a thin spray of silicone on that area each year solves it.

Doesn’t get steamy like goretex either. Now if you’re going to be in rain for prolonged days/nights, maybe goretex is the answer.

[Bushwacka]

I’ve had the opposite experience with Bakers and Chemical pants. Bomber, breathe well and waterproofing is about as good as anything 50 days in, in the pnw. Experience with several pairs, hundreds of days in each. Regarding snow collecting on knees, a thin spray of silicone on that area each year solves it.

Doesn’t get steamy like goretex either. Now if you’re going to be in rain for prolonged days/nights, maybe goretex is the answer.

yeah I own them

Bomber yes

Waterproof yes(eastern skier) yes

They are not very breathable though. The vents are huge though.

[iriponsnow]

I’ve had the opposite experience with Bakers and Chemical pants. Bomber, breathe well and waterproofing is about as good as anything 50 days in, in the pnw. Experience with several pairs, hundreds of days in each. Regarding snow collecting on knees, a thin spray of silicone on that area each year solves it.

Doesn’t get steamy like goretex either. Now if you’re going to be in rain for prolonged days/nights, maybe goretex is the answer.

yeah I own them

Bomber yes

Waterproof yes(eastern skier) yes

They are not very breathable though. The vents are huge though.

Would tend to agree…. used Chemical pant a ton this year w scrambles, tour & even some crampon / rappel time… found em to be perhaps slightly less durable, but was beating the F outta them & always buy dated colors…. So not $450 but more like $120-175- well worth that.

Word is an insulated Baker in coming in 2024. I used Snowman bibs for lift only days at the resorts & they have held up just fine & feel like a snuggy (soft) - again perhaps not as durable, but always buy 1-2 season old colorways, so cheap.

Another item I consider w all my purchases now, can I unload easily when done? FL bibs seem to be easily to sell/move & recoup some $$ ; there are more bomber bibs (Spyder Coaches Bib) that are 2x as spendy & then no one ever wants to take em off my hands.

[Bushwacka]

The snowman is not the same material as the baker. I own both and while I havent ripped the snowman, its seems like they COULD rip.

My baker bibs seems like it would take a knife to tear them.

Its 2L versus 3L.

[XtrPickels]

I wear them sometimes on sunny days with zero chance of precip, low wind. Wind cuts through as well. Opposite of foul weather gear I suppose.

Future light is an electrospun membrane - just like Polartec Neoshell.
They are best utilized for highly aerobic activities where some waterproofing is needed. E.g. Cycling Rain jackets.
It isn't the best technology for absolute waterproofing, especially at low sweat rates. For that, You're better off with a Gore or air-permeable technology.

Source: I was designing cycling apparel utilizing the same supplier as "Futurelight" prior to them getting an exclusive deal with the supplier.

[iriponsnow]

The snowman is not the same material as the baker. I own both and while I havent ripped the snowman, its seems like they COULD rip.

My baker bibs seems like it would take a knife to tear them.

Its 2L versus 3L.

100%

[McShortyShorts]

Super intrigued by the arcteryx pro guide stuff….seems it’s the old made in Canada burly stuff that the Asian made goods are not. I’m not a “professional” though…wonder if they’d make an exception for a ski racer dad who die FS tons of time at the hill…

Arcteryx outlet stores in Canada will sometimes have their pro line on sale, if you're ever up north of the border