Ukraine

[rod9301]

I didn't see my name on the list.

Ukraine Issues Blacklist Of 'Russian Propagandists', Includes US Senator & Prominent Journalists





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[Cisco Kid]

Rand and Tulsi. Good. Call a spade a spade.

[billyk]

The air force wants to retire the A-10s because they are slow, unstealthy targets that they don’t think will survive well against a “near peer” adversary that has sophisticated anti aircraft rocket systems, like the Russians do. They work only if you have air superiority and have suppressed the enemies AA batteries. I don’t see how this would work out well for the Ukrainians, but I guess if they are willing to lose their pilots…

As I was saying…
https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-o...202251324.html

[TBS]

Rand and Tulsi. Good. Call a spade a spade.

Kind of a stretch saying Glenn Greenwald is a “prominent journalist” though…

[highangle]

Tulshar al Gassad is a current Fellow of The Sanders Institute, along with AOC, Pramila Jaypal, Nina Turner, Saun King, James Zogby, and Dr. Jane O'Meara Sanders. She says the US is running the Ukrainian bioweapon labs that Good Lord Putin was forced to invade to stop before their evil products were used on the peaceful Russian people in another endless war of NATO imperialism.

[Toadman]

As I was saying…
https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-o...202251324.html

Turns out beggars can be choosers. Is there no antiradiation missiles carried on the A-10? Not effective wild weasel style drones that can go in and clean out MANPADS? I guess more HIMARS then!

[ex-powderbroker]

So in 6 months Pootin already has more KIA than Afganistan and no one in Moscow has noticed because they're all cannon fodder from the outer rim. Fuck Russia.

[Cono Este]

So in 6 months Pootin already has more KIA than Afganistan and no one in Moscow has noticed because they're all cannon fodder from the outer rim. Fuck Russia.

Things are either going get stupid crazy in Ukraine, or stupid crazy in Russia and we’re going to worry about 6000 nukes during a coup.


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[billyk]

Turns out beggars can be choosers. Is there no antiradiation missiles carried on the A-10? Not effective wild weasel style drones that can go in and clean out MANPADS? I guess more HIMARS then!

They want F16s. This explains why:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/u...213100120.html

[Harry]

My opinion = militaries always want to fight the last war, and manned fighter planes are WW2. Drones are the future, and this war in Ukraine is proving that. I predict in 10 years militaries won’t even have pilots. This talk about A-10 vs F-16 is dumb, give Ukraine more and better drones.


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[jono]

My opinion = militaries always want to fight the last war, and manned fighter planes are WW2. Drones are the future, and this war in Ukraine is proving that. I predict in 10 years militaries won’t even have pilots. This talk about A-10 vs F-16 is dumb, give Ukraine more and better drones.

I forget where I saw it but there was an interesting comment lately that the timing of the USAF talking about sending fighters after drones have had so much success is no coincidence. When budgets ate threatened there are more important concerns than escalation or getting involved in a land war in Asia.

My friend in the manned fighter industrial complex is feeling pretty defensive about it. They're still hoping to build a 6th generation manned fighter. I guess the F-35 is a big success now? Yeesh.

[Bunion 2020]

That 6th generation could be the 1st billion dollar fighter aircraft.

[Cono Este]

This war, with all the Twitter clips of $1000 drones is really proving that.


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[From_the_NEK]

That 6th generation could be the 1st billion dollar fighter aircraft.

If I win the MegaMillions jackpot, I'll buy one for TGR posters to use for stealth skiing ops.

[riser4]

If I win the MegaMillions jackpot, I'll buy one for TGR posters to use for stealth skiing ops.

We'd be happy with some more box fans.

[jono]

That 6th generation could be the 1st billion dollar fighter aircraft.

And if we start now it'll still be in service 100 years after the first manned fighter failed to out-turn a missile. So that would be nice.

[Shredhead]

My opinion = militaries always want to fight the last war, and manned fighter planes are WW2. Drones are the future, and this war in Ukraine is proving that. I predict in 10 years militaries won’t even have pilots. This talk about A-10 vs F-16 is dumb, give Ukraine more and better drones.


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No military wants to give away its newest and greatest gadgets. Clear out the old stuff.

It’s also sad, but a protracted engagement, is probably the administration’s intent.

[jono]

No military wants to give away its newest and greatest gadgets. Clear out the old stuff.

It’s also sad, but a protracted engagement, is probably the administration’s intent.

IDK. The longer the engagement lasts the more it will be claimed that this was the West's intent, whether that's reasonable or not. What's the value of reducing Russia to a distant third rate power? Pros and cons: they can't be played against China if they're powerless beggars. So you have to believe that empowering China is worth it to reduce Russia. Can they be reduced to a Cuba-level cost sink for China? Unlikely and there's risk in everything but particularly in exerting control over the situation, since that empowers the propaganda. Much more reasonable to help Ukraine and let them make the decisions.

[ex-powderbroker]

What's the value of reducing Russia to a distant third rate power?

They already are a banana republic with nukes. If the world (and their leadership) recognizes that, maybe they'll stop being belligerent neighbors to any place that once, or could in the future, speak Russian.

Increased peace goes on the pros.

[LongShortLong]

I'm not buying the idea that Russia needs to be reduced to a third-rate state. Its war with Ukraine has shown it already is third rate. The only thing keeping Russia has in the pro column is they are belligerent and corrupt, so theoretically they could be influenced as a counterbalance to China. Surely about any other country makes a better "great game" counterbalance - Europe, India, the "asian tigers," AU/NZ, etc. Russia brings nothing but mostly empty land, outdated weapons, and unstable leadership. Pakistan is better than Russia as a great power pawn.

Russia should be reduced to not-Russia. A proposed culmination of the Putin conquest based world-order:


But whatabout the nukes? Yes, that situation could get worse, but it's currently bad; Putin is not a stable genius. I'm happy to take chances on something better.

[Toadman]

My opinion = militaries always want to fight the last war, and manned fighter planes are WW2. Drones are the future, and this war in Ukraine is proving that. I predict in 10 years militaries won’t even have pilots. This talk about A-10 vs F-16 is dumb, give Ukraine more and better drones.


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Hey, it's TGR, it's a given that the conversations are dumb.

I have seen some video clips of Russians taking down small drones with some type of weapon that appears to be a highly directed beam of maybe microwaves or similar. So, drones are not necessarily the be all and end all of the next war. Drone swarms seem really cool, and then someone fires a weapon that drops all them out of the sky with the flip of a switch.

At the end of the day, the MIC is loving all the money coming from the R&D funds that they are getting out of this Russia vs Ukraine special military operation.

[jono]

They already are a banana republic with nukes. If the world (and their leadership) recognizes that, maybe they'll stop being belligerent neighbors to any place that once, or could in the future, speak Russian.

Increased peace goes on the pros.

Definitely. But my point was that what gets increased peace is going to be nuanced. A thorough humiliation of Russia (and let's be real, that's underway) motivates China to avoid that experience, but seeing an opening might do the opposite. Russia and China have been competitors for a long time and maybe will be again--but not if we believe the new friendship statement and also not if Russia becomes totally dependant on China for trade.

No matter which way this goes there are not enough unmitigated upsides for the US from any single shift in the global order to justify the next 50 years of pushing back against Russian (and Chinese?) disinfo (or worse, if it was true) that results if we purposely tried to delay and prolong the Ukrainian conflict. Conversely, a major PR win at home and abroad might be the best we could hope for here if we're talking purely American self-interest. And quicker is better on that basis.

[cat in january]

Given the heavy drag on the world’s economy I don’t see prolonging the conflict being in the interest of the US government

[jono]

Hey, it's TGR, it's a given that the conversations are dumb.

I have seen some video clips of Russians taking down small drones with some type of weapon that appears to be a highly directed beam of maybe microwaves or similar. So, drones are not necessarily the be all and end all of the next war. Drone swarms seem really cool, and then someone fires a weapon that drops all them out of the sky with the flip of a switch.

At the end of the day, the MIC is loving all the money coming from the R&D funds that they are getting out of this Russia vs Ukraine special military operation.

Whether to put a human inside a 6th gen fighter (or indeed, whether there really is such a thing as a 6th gen fighter if it can't turn at double-digit g's) is not really a comparison with quad copters so much as a question of the speed, reliability and precision of controls used on high-end military drones. At some point those systems become capable enough to make the inherent limitations associated with ferrying the pilot around too great to accept.

When that happens is hard to guess with precision, but if it takes 20 years to develop the next fighter that's a pretty big window.

[subtle plague]

Serious question. Unless you make the drones semi autonomous(ethic dilemma) how can you guarantee that you can't interfer with the drones to neutralize their conbat ability. And I don't mean getting them out of the sky with emps or hacking them per se, but just Signal Feedback ( assuming the data stream is heavily encoded), jamming or Duplicate authentic Signals so the drones are just a few sec late or confused. So apparently smart people have thought about that so tell me why this is impossible? Signal time stamp or live authentification?