Ukraine

[summit]

Fuck off Rod. What's happening in Yemen is both a tragedy and a civil war with each respective faction backed by Saudi Arabia and Iran. To oppose Saudi Arabia is to support Iran. What's more, the Iranian backed Houthi rebels recently broke yet another truce with the Yemeni government, not the other way around. The internationally recognized Yemeni government and the Saudi-led coalition both complied with the truce.

The majority of Yemenis fear the Houthis’ because they reject power sharing, are totally aligned with Iran, and because of their even more radical ideological and theological beliefs.

In Yemen the main obstacles to peace are ones only Yemenis can resolve. Whereas in Ukraine the main obstacle to peace is Russia.

EXACTLY

[TBS]

I have to say that i view the west support of 'Ukraine as racist.

Because there was no support for iraq, Syria, South Yemen, etc and a lot of people died there. But they were brown.

So maybe the motivation was different, maybe it's oil, so i could be wrong.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

See post 11078 upthread for great summary of strategic importance of Ukraine.
Syria and Yemen conflicts were/are civil wars. Syria in particular has/had like six or seven sides in the conflict. Multiverse pointed out the particulars of Yemeni conflict above as well.

No idea what you mean by “Iraq”. We spent a Hudge amount of money fucking that place up - cannot possibly reach that level of fail by being hands off. We stayed until their govt tossed us

How’s your Gasprom stock?

[jono]

I do think we ought to better ourselves, in ways that make things better for everyone.

Sure. And do you expect that others ought to agree with this? I've been slow to accept it, being at least mostly human, but after a long struggle it struck me that part of accepting reality as it is is accepting that most won't.

In Cono's case the disappointment is mitigated a little: he grew up third world and apparently what our schools lack in math, reading, science and fútbol we kind of make up for in understanding the basics of MAD and how to react to a bully. It's not much, but it's not nothing.

[rod9301]

See post 11078 upthread for great summary of strategic importance of Ukraine.
Syria and Yemen conflicts were/are civil wars. Syria in particular has/had like six or seven sides in the conflict. Multiverse pointed out the particulars of Yemeni conflict above as well.

No idea what you mean by “Iraq”. We spent a Hudge amount of money fucking that place up - cannot possibly reach that level of fail by being hands off. We stayed until their govt tossed us

How’s your Gasprom stock?

So because we don't like iran it's ok to support Saudi Arabia in killing lots of yemenis?



Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[J. Barron DeJong]

So because we don't like iran it's ok to support Saudi Arabia in killing lots of yemenis?

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

If US were to get heavily involved in Yemen, what’s the path to a stable/prosperous outcome?

Ukraine was a stable democracy before RU invaded.

[rod9301]

See post 11078 upthread for great summary of strategic importance of Ukraine.
Syria and Yemen conflicts were/are civil wars. Syria in particular has/had like six or seven sides in the conflict. Multiverse pointed out the particulars of Yemeni conflict above as well.

No idea what you mean by “Iraq”. We spent a Hudge amount of money fucking that place up - cannot possibly reach that level of fail by being hands off. We stayed until their govt tossed us

How’s your Gasprom stock?

Iraq:

US attacked Iraq on false pretense(wmd).

Russia attacked Ukraine under false pretense.

I don't see any difference between the two, except that, so far, many more people died in Iraq.

And yet there was no outcry in the developed world about the iraq invasion.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[LongShortLong]

Sure. And do you expect that others ought to agree with this? I've been slow to accept it, being at least mostly human, but after a long struggle it struck me that part of accepting reality as it is is accepting that most won't.

In Cono's case the disappointment is mitigated a little: he grew up third world and apparently what our schools lack in math, reading, science and fútbol we kind of make up for in understanding the basics of MAD and how to react to a bully. It's not much, but it's not nothing.

Yes I think they ought to. Being human is a process, with both the short history of one's life so far, and the longer history of prior human culture we can learn from. Where the process is going, who's to say. My opinion is from where I've reached. (Maybe I'll be a raving Randian/selfish prick in a week. Seems unlikely). So I think others ought to think and come to their own conclusions. And they may reach different conclusions and I'm happy to discuss.

However I also accept many people have stunted intellectual growth. I haven't yet figured out how many they are. To the degree that they are many, they refuse reason, and they are led on a path that makes things worse, they are impeding the general welfare and happiness. Hence my thought that maybe the reasonable approach is to create a false leader to lead those who are easily misled.

Perhaps Putin is the true prophet and I'm just a confused spawn of a decadent culture. Though his arguments fail me.

[oldnew_guy]

Iraq:



And yet there was no outcry in the developed world about the iraq invasion.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

Right…


You live in the land of “these colors don’t run” bumper stickers?

[MultiVerse]

Rod is just re-repeating Putin's oldest and favorite talking point. If Rod were in any way consistent instead of always acting as the main apologist for Russian genocide on this forum he'd argue against wars of conquest and support Ukraine, support Russian sanctions, and support sending weapons to Ukrainians for self-defense.

[rod9301]

Right…


You live in the land of “these colors don’t run” bumper stickers?

Are you saying that there was a while outcry against the iraq invasion as there is against the Russian invasion?

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[rod9301]

Rod is just re-repeating Putin's oldest and favorite talking point. If Rod were in any way consistent instead of always acting as the main apologist for Russian genocide on this forum he'd argue against wars of conquest and support Ukraine, support Russian sanctions, and support sending weapons to Ukrainians for self-defense.

This is the first time i attack someone, but trust is ridiculous.

All i said is that there is this great support for Ukraine while there wasn't much for iraq.

How am i acting as an apologist for Russian genocide?





Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[MultiVerse]

You've done less of it recently but consistently either ignored Russian genocide or argued it wasn't happening in the past. Do Groupies for Putin all of the sudden change bands that easily?

Look, as is the case with Yemen wars are not typically clearly "good vs. evil". The Ukraine War is different. Russia's unprovoked genocidal aggression versus Ukrainians simply trying to defend their homes and families is very straightforward.

[oldnew_guy]

Are you saying that there was a while outcry against the iraq invasion as there is against the Russian invasion?

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

Oh you are one of those douchebags.

[LongShortLong]

Are you saying that there was a while outcry against the iraq invasion as there is against the Russian invasion?

yes they served French fries. Sadly the majority of Americans re-elected the imperialists.

[mcski]

This thread is about what’s happening in Ukraine. It’s not compare and contrast to other wars. You want that discussion, start your own thread. It doesn’t really belong here. It just sounds like whataboutism

[Bunion 2020]

^^^ This

[subtle plague]

Are you saying that there was a while outcry against the iraq invasion as there is against the Russian invasion?

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

Well apparently you weren't skiing the wonderful couloirs of the pyrenees back then or you'd have noticed the outcry here in Europe.

[Mani_UT]

Well apparently you weren't skiing the wonderful couloirs of the pyrenees back then or you'd have noticed the outcry here in Europe.

Someone seems to have forgotten about freedom fries... Europe (minus the UK of course) knew it was BS.

[Bunion 2020]

That was back in the Ttips days of the way OT forum. If Rod had been around he would fucking well know there were a lot of us being highly critical of American actions in Iraq and just like him now, we were raging about it albeit on an even more obscure ski forum.

[ötzi]

The obsession with Rod and Cono is tired. Who gives a fuck what they think?

Anything interesting happening in Ukraine?

[LongShortLong]

This thread is about what’s happening in Ukraine. It’s not compare and contrast to other wars. You want that discussion, start your own thread. It doesn’t really belong here. It just sounds like whataboutism

Possibly a collective effort to temporarily forget Ukrainians without light, heat, water, power, and internet. Who don't know when the next Russian missile arrives, and likely do know someone killed and what a bomb crater looks like.

[beer30]

This is the first time i attack someone, but trust is ridiculous.

All i said is that there is this great support for Ukraine while there wasn't much for iraq.

How am i acting as an apologist for Russian genocide?





Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

3 million strong in Rome alone on February 13, 2003. Protest all over Europe of large scale and many smaller ones in the US.

Not much said by the governments representing those countries however if that’s what ya mean.

Big loss of face for the US with that Ill conceived conflict

[ex-powderbroker]

I don't see any difference between the two, except that, so far, many more people died in Iraq.

And yet there was no outcry in the developed world about the iraq invasion.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protes...t_the_Iraq_War

According to the French academic Dominique Reynié, between January 3 and April 12, 2003, 36 million people across the globe took part in almost 3,000 protests against the Iraq war.[1]



PEPPERIDGE FARM REMEMBERS

[MultiVerse]

In 2003 the US invaded a country that did not threaten America in any way. In 2022 Putin invaded a country a country that did not threaten Russia in any way. It would be delusional to think only America is capable of unprovoked aggression. And yet that is still the basis for some to oppose helping Ukraine against its aggressor, even though opposing the Iraq invasion and opposing the Russian invasion are eminently reasonable positions.

Most Americans came to recognize the United States made a huge mistake with Iraq. Within a year of the invasion public support fell to a low of 39% in mid to late June 2003. After that, even though there were reversals in polls the general trend was downward such that within a few years only 1 in 4 approved of Bush's Iraq policy. The overwhelming majority recognized it was a grave mistake.

Some people are still stuck in 2000s living in the shadow of Iraq. Russian propaganda works in the shadow of those events. Russia serves up bombastic lies in the hopes something will stick. The goal isn't to convince people the lies are true but instead to make the simple seem complex. The goal is to sow doubt among Westerners even though Russian lies never add up consistently.

We shouldn't let Russian propaganda trick us into making the opposite even more disastrous mistake this time.

[subtle plague]

3 million strong in Rome alone on February 13, 2003. Protest all over Europe of large scale and many smaller ones in the US.

Not much said by the governments representing those countries however if that’s what ya mean.

Big loss of face for the US with that Ill conceived conflict

Um. No. Before (or rather while)Schröder was bought by putin( we're going full circle here) he said that the Invasion is not justified.

Merkel, who was Opposition leader at that time, got the lube and instantly signaled full Support to Bush jr.

To paraphrase: "I would boldy go where the sun don't shine, my great American friend."