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Thread: Ukraine

  1. #11226
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    Quote Originally Posted by highangle View Post
    To whom and for what reason?
    We have an old book titled ‘America and her possessions’. I can’t find it right now so can’t give you a rundown on what it says, but it’s a fairly robust tome, so I’m pretty sure it doesn’t just say “America has no possessions”.

  2. #11227
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    Photos taken of WW1 battlefields on the left column, modern day Ukraine on the right:

    Name:  WWI vs Ukraine.jpg
Views: 559
Size:  104.2 KB

  3. #11228
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    Quote Originally Posted by highangle View Post
    To whom and for what reason?









    And Hillary's emails!
    Oh for fucks sake.

    To the world and ourselves. To remind us that we are not perfect. And to remind us that this time, we are in the correct side of history. We have a lot of sins to atone for.

    Why would you mention Hillary's emails? You think I'm a tRumper? Decidedly not.

  4. #11229
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    Quote Originally Posted by summit View Post
    HAH! Nice. Fuck the Iranians.
    “You shouldn’t be where you shouldn’t be,” Danilov said, in an interview in Kyiv. “They were on our territory. We didn’t invite them here, and if they collaborate with terrorists and participate in the destruction of our nation we must kill them.”
    ....

  5. #11230
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    I'm waiting for a big boom*, or a series of them, deep inside Russia. It'll be interesting to see what happens then.

    edit: *not nuclear

  6. #11231
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    Quote Originally Posted by riser4 View Post
    Oh for fucks sake.

    To the world and ourselves. To remind us that we are not perfect. And to remind us that this time, we are in the correct side of history. We have a lot of sins to atone for.

    Why would you mention Hillary's emails? You think I'm a tRumper? Decidedly not.
    I know you're not a Trumper, but acts of contrition and penitence are not my religion, and you ex-Bros shouldn't try to impose your Chomskyesque posttheology on me any more than Clarence Thomas and his Dominionist pals should impose theirs.

    And from a diplomatic perspective, what do I get for prostrating myself in front of Xi and Putin and whatever oil, whaling, and tropical fruit dictatorship wants reparations money this week? Good graces?

    Yeah right... Save the finger-wagging kumbaya jambalaya for after Russia un-invades Ukraine and China gives up its "manifest destiny" bullshit in Tibet and Taiwan.

  7. #11232
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    I wonder if leaving your foxhole at night to kill the enemy silently while he sleeps is still a thing in front of the front? OTOH the ability for a grunt at the front to thermal image the individual enemy in his hole, drop a bomb from a drone, watch it hit and then have a smoke has changed the game of demoralize/terrorize.
    Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.

  8. #11233
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    Quote Originally Posted by highangle View Post
    I know you're not a Trumper, but acts of contrition and penitence are not my religion, and you ex-Bros shouldn't try to impose your Chomskyesque posttheology on me any more than Clarence Thomas and his Dominionist pals should impose theirs.

    And from a diplomatic perspective, what do I get for prostrating myself in front of Xi and Putin and whatever oil, whaling, and tropical fruit dictatorship wants reparations money this week? Good graces?

    Yeah right... Save the finger-wagging kumbaya jambalaya for after Russia un-invades Ukraine and China gives up its "manifest destiny" bullshit in Tibet and Taiwan.
    Ex-bros??? What the fuck is that?

  9. #11234
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    Quote Originally Posted by riser4 View Post
    Ex-bros??? What the fuck is that?
    ex-Bro, bro. But that was a long time ago, no?

  10. #11235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco Kid View Post
    I wonder if leaving your foxhole at night to kill the enemy silently while he sleeps is still a thing in front of the front? OTOH the ability for a grunt at the front to thermal image the individual enemy in his hole, drop a bomb from a drone, watch it hit and then have a smoke has changed the game of demoralize/terrorize.
    Apparently it's still a thing, but now you wait for the starving orcs to chase a bunny.

    https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/...Cq9enHzKksAAAA

  11. #11236
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    Quote Originally Posted by highangle View Post
    ex-Bro, bro. But that was a long time ago, no?
    No idea what you're on about.

  12. #11237
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    Quote Originally Posted by riser4 View Post
    Ex-bros??? What the fuck is that?
    Like the X-men but hipper.

  13. #11238
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    Quote Originally Posted by riser4 View Post
    No idea what you're on about.
    You're lucky You're not a road biker. You'd have felt his full wrath unleashed.
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  14. #11239
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    riser, do you mostly agree with the points made here: https://theconversation.com/amp/shou...its-past-66525 ?

    My personal observation (perhaps I live in a bubble) is that US or German (!) or French history of offenses are generally known and acknowledged, and discussion of same doesn’t really add much actual value in conversations or negotiations focused on responsible actions needed in a morally clear (as you’ve acknowledged) ‘house is on fire’ situation like the invasion of Ukraine.

    What value do you see coming directly from a reminder made to a room of diplomats or heads of state of things they mostly already know?

  15. #11240
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    Or in a forum discussion…since you’re not advocating a lessened US or German response, you’re just making sure people here haven’t forgotten their history lessons?

  16. #11241
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Or in a forum discussion…since you’re not advocating a lessened US or German response, you’re just making sure people here haven’t forgotten their history lessons?
    Some people don't know the history or are blind to it.

  17. #11242
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    Now we know. War is he'll. Let's get this done
    Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.

  18. #11243
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    Quote Originally Posted by riser4 View Post
    Some people don't know the history or are blind to it.
    Agreed, obviously. So I still haven’t seen confirmation of what value you see in keeping it as a footnote or aside to any conversation about supporting Ukraine.

    Maybe the logic here is ‘hey since we’re talking foreign policy and war and stuff, here’s some links to remind you of how western countries fucked over or invaded others. It doesn’t change the moral equation in any practical sense here, since we should still support Ukraine, but let’s kinda keep it on our minds anyway to make sure this educational opportunity isn’t lost’.

  19. #11244
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    The history of appeasement to ruthless invaders to find peace has shown that it doesn't work. Tell me why I'm wrong.
    Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.

  20. #11245
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    Well the Romans invaded a lot of people and there was the whole "Pax Romana" deal for quite a while. And Genghis Khan took it a lot easier of cities that didn't resist. What do I win?

  21. #11246
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    History is written by the winners. No
    Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.

  22. #11247
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Agreed, obviously. So I still haven’t seen confirmation of what value you see in keeping it as a footnote or aside to any conversation about supporting Ukraine.

    Maybe the logic here is ‘hey since we’re talking foreign policy and war and stuff, here’s some links to remind you of how western countries fucked over or invaded others. It doesn’t change the moral equation in any practical sense here, since we should still support Ukraine, but let’s kinda keep it on our minds anyway to make sure this educational opportunity isn’t lost’.
    That works.

  23. #11248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco Kid View Post
    History is written by the winners. No
    If I’m a citizen of a city and Ghengis Khan’s army is at my door I want appeasement every fucking time. There was no back up coming. If the situation is hopeless, appeasement is the right call.

    Ukraine is no where near hopeless. They have shown they can win and there appear to be only two ways for Russia to win; western support falters or Russia uses many nukes.

  24. #11249
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    Good interview (despite interviewer Anne McElvoy being somewhat annoying) from The Economist with Ben Hodges, who certainly has military credentials as the former commender of U.S. Army Euriope among other posts. He predicts Ukrainian victory, not to mention the dissolution of the Russian Federation.

    https://www.economist.com/podcasts/2022/11/24/how-could-ukraine-win-the-war

  25. #11250
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    If I’m a citizen of a city and Ghengis Khan’s army is at my door I want appeasement every fucking time. There was no back up coming. If the situation is hopeless, appeasement is the right call.

    Ukraine is no where near hopeless. They have shown they can win and there appear to be only two ways for Russia to win; western support falters or Russia uses many nukes.
    Yup, but the Russians are not anywhere near the fighting force as the Khanates. Shit Russkies aren't even the second best force in Ukraine.

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