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Thread: Ukraine

  1. #11926
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    Interesting Twitter analysis of German foot dragging on tanks for Ukraine. And just the way Olaf is slow in the decision making process.

    https://twitter.com/fromTGA/status/1617131957594329088
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  2. #11927
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglymoney View Post
    According to Ukraine commanders...dealing with T90's takes 3x the resources for the Ukr vs taking down their older tanks and that is with modern Nato kit but without equal armor.

    Imagine how many resources a few heavy pseudo modern Nato tanks would tie up for the Russians and most likely ease the burden on Ukraine.

    Can you agree the defense of Ukraine is going to require offense?



    Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk
    I do not see tanks necessarily taking more resources from the russians than mobile hard to find himars. I also don't see tanks being any more able to kill t90s than himars are. In fact a good deal less so.

    Besides from everything I've heard the t90s are almost entirely vaporware.
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    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

  3. #11928
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    Quote Originally Posted by ötzi View Post
    The one arm of Russian foreign/military policy and capabilities that has been untouched is the propaganda machine. If anything I'm sure the effort has grown. We just need to keep that in mind and work to counter it.
    What propaganda are you worried about? That fed to the russian people? I've been chatting with a couple russians on reddit and from what they say the propaganda really doesn't have much effect on the younger generations, like anyone under 50 or 60. The vast majority is sick of putin.

    Misinformation and misdirection obviously can have a huge effect in war but I does propaganda really do much to change the actual combat situation?
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    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

  4. #11929
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    Im Glad we have leroy in this thread to explain everything. Maybe altasnob could join us and dumb it down for us.
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  5. #11930
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    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post

    Misinformation and misdirection obviously can have a huge effect in war but I does propaganda really do much to change the actual combat situation?
    I was told that Loose Lips Sink Ships. So yes.

    You're welcome.
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  6. #11931
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    Quote Originally Posted by subtle plague View Post
    Im Glad we have leroy in this thread to explain everything. Maybe altasnob could join us and dumb it down for us.
    Well thankfully we have you to make stunning contributions such as these.

    I think I've raised valid questions.

    Himars seem like a lot more capability for less liability and propaganda seems to be most effective on TGR posters.

    Remember the ghost of kyiv?
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    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

  7. #11932
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    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    I do not see tanks necessarily taking more resources from the russians than mobile hard to find himars. I also don't see tanks being any more able to kill t90s than himars are. In fact a good deal less so.

    Besides from everything I've heard the t90s are almost entirely vaporware.
    I do not see running backs any more able to break tackles then tight ends. In fact a good deal less so.

    Besides from everything I've heard the left tackles are almost entirely vaporware.

    That help? You can handicap your offense, but why would you do that?

  8. #11933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadman View Post
    Interesting Twitter analysis of German foot dragging on tanks for Ukraine. And just the way Olaf is slow in the decision making process.

    https://twitter.com/fromTGA/status/1617131957594329088
    Yep. Same on substack for easier reading https://timothygartonash.substack.co...s-failure-over

  9. #11934
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    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    Well thankfully we have you to make stunning contributions such as these.

    I think I've raised valid questions.

    Himars seem like a lot more capability for less liability and propaganda seems to be most effective on TGR posters.

    Remember the ghost of kyiv?
    You obviously have zero concept of the symbiotic relationships and strategic functionality differences of Infantry, Tanks and armored fighting machines. Try changing from your totally ignorant opinions start asking more questions. Do your own research first so you wont look so ignorant.
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  10. #11935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco Kid View Post
    Do your own research first so you wont look so ignorant.
    Mmmmm I don’t know about that…garbage in, garbage out and whatnot.

  11. #11936
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    Yeah, you're right, you have to know how to research. And think critically.
    Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.

  12. #11937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cisco Kid View Post
    You obviously have zero concept of the symbiotic relationships and strategic functionality differences of Infantry, Tanks and armored fighting machines. Try changing from your totally ignorant opinions start asking more questions. Do your own research first so you wont look so ignorant.
    You just said nothing.

    I realize tanks are useful for offense. They're also a huge liability. The US military doesn't just have the best tech, we have the doctrine for how to use it, and from what I know, every single deployment of armor in the second iraq war was very carefully thought out because tanks are liabilities. A broken tread becomes a big deal and a huge liability for infantry in the area not just the tank crew.

    Go ahead and tell me what exactly I am ignorant about. To me it just seems like some people are cheerleader more escalation more money etc etc. The same people that believed the ghost of Kyiv was a real thing.

    To me it seems like russias use of tanks has in many ways been a liability to anti tank weapons that while expensive are far less so than tanks.

    We also can't just give them tanks without also giving recovery vehicles, armored bridge layers, etc etc etc. Tanks by themselves are a huge liability. Tell me how I'm wrong if you're going to be snarky. I think the fantasy of bid bad tanks seems emotionally appealing to many without the full reality being apparant.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

  13. #11938
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    Wow, the past three pages had a discussion on tank logistics including links. Meanwhile at the slow kids table: Leroy, "tell me why nobody is talking about tank logistics"

    Also, too, Leroy prattling on about the "ghost of Kyiv" is like Don King telling someone they need a haircut. The 'ghost' story was only mentioned twice in passing on this forum and was never a serious part of the discussion. In the larger context it was a harmless feel good story told at a time when things looked very bleak for Ukraine. It was intended as an amalgamation of the small number pilots who managed to stay in the fight despite Russia's overwhelming numerical air superiority.

  14. #11939
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    Since Leroy seems to have forgotten how:
    https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=how+a...d+in+combat%3F

  15. #11940
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    Dude, if Russians start gathering on the polish border I wouldn’t call anyone in NATO a “conspiracy theorist” for being concerned.

    Jesus, what a dick you are.

  16. #11941
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    The word "if" is carrying a lot of weight in that sentence.

  17. #11942
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    Russia/Wagner loudly and proudly commit murder, rape and pillage and take pride in it!

    But ghost of khiv or some such is the reason not to lend further aid

  18. #11943
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    Quote Originally Posted by subtle plague View Post
    Nobody really, well except some parts of the SPD, understands why we don't send Tanks.
    We aren't sending Abrams because it's a poor fit for this conflict- long transit time, no depot in theatre, very heavy, and high fuel consumption.

    The M1 was designed for lightning expeditionary warfare under conditions of air and fires superiority. It's really a poor fit for Ukraine's evolving doctrine.

    For most European nations, the Leopard 2 is simply the better armored asset.
    Daniel Ortega eats here.

  19. #11944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viva View Post
    We aren't sending Abrams because it's a poor fit for this conflict- long transit time, no depot in theatre, very heavy, and high fuel consumption.

    The M1 was designed for lightning expeditionary warfare under conditions of air and fires superiority. It's really a poor fit for Ukraine's evolving doctrine.

    For most European nations, the Leopard 2 is simply the better armored asset.
    And yet Ukraine requests them. For almost a year now. I trust they know what they need more than some politician in DC or talking head on TV.

  20. #11945
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    Wow, the past three pages had a discussion on tank logistics including links. Meanwhile at the slow kids table: Leroy, "tell me why nobody is talking about tank logistics"

    Also, too, Leroy prattling on about the "ghost of Kyiv" is like Don King telling someone they need a haircut. The 'ghost' story was only mentioned twice in passing on this forum and was never a serious part of the discussion. In the larger context it was a harmless feel good story told at a time when things looked very bleak for Ukraine. It was intended as an amalgamation of the small number pilots who managed to stay in the fight despite Russia's overwhelming numerical air superiority.
    I never said no ones talking about it. I just said various reasons why I don't think they're the best fit.

    At the very least, we are still handicapping the himars we sent with very limited ammo. That should change before sending them abrams at the very least.

    Seems like the slow kids can't comprehend that but I wasn't going to make this about insulting anyone. Throwing around insults is typically a pretty good indicator you're not able to debate on merit.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

  21. #11946
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post

    Also, too, Leroy prattling on about the "ghost of Kyiv" is like Don King telling someone they need a haircut.
    Strong work

  22. #11947
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShortLong View Post
    And yet Ukraine requests them. For almost a year now. I trust they know what they need more than some politician in DC or talking head on TV.
    They request everything. They request the fucking moon. This is like federal agencies burning through ammo because if they don't they'll get less in next years budget.

    But ok lets keep sending billions and billions to the world's money laundering capital and escalate things. Sounds sweet. Actually giving them the ammo to feed the himars is way more bang four OUR buck than sending tanks across the atlantic.

    You guys just like escalation. This isn't about me being slow. its about you guys just liking escalation.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

  23. #11948
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    Quote Originally Posted by schuss View Post
    Since Leroy seems to have forgotten how:
    https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=how+a...d+in+combat%3F
    You could at least have googled how the role of tanks is changing in warfare like the million articles that have talked about that in this conflict, along with the ones talking about how the t90 is vaporware, being destroyed in large numbers when it is deployed, and done so by weapon systems easier hidden more mobile and a fraction of the cost. But nah just leroy slow. Lulz.

    Sarcasm is often the lack of wit.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

  24. #11949
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    You guys should find a tank forum to whack off in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
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  25. #11950
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    Yea for some reason I'm able to have not retarded discourse on reddit. I'll change the subject.

    Did you guys see that the guy who led the investigation into trumps ties to russia for the fbi just got arrested for having ties to russia?
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
    "We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats

    "I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso

    Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.

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