Ukraine

[Lvovsky]

If you can find an hour or so to see what happened in Ukraine during 2013-14 revolution:

https://youtu.be/yzNxLzFfR5w

[simple]

The shitty thing is a lot of people are going to die for this nonsense. Question is, after a million people died of a coronavirus will the general public really take the power back from their leaders or just roll with it?

[gretch6364]

The shitty thing is a lot of people are going to die for this nonsense. Question is, after a million people died of a coronavirus will the general public really take the power back from their leaders or just roll with it?

Doesn’t look good….


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[4matic]

This thread continues to drift to polly ass and discussion of Trump.

You're right. My mistake. Doesn't belong here.

[CarlMega]

This thread continues to drift to polly ass and discussion of Trump.

1st, it's hard to not have the line of sight between Trump and his treatment of NATO in this situation - NATO is the instrument that keeps Putin's greater ambitions at bay. Trump undermined and diminished it. Maybe if he shut the fuck up about Ukraine, the current admin and Putin - we'd have a chance to move past, but he doesn't so here we are. I mean the dude was impeached for coercing Ukraine to get dirt on a political opponent - to the tune of withholding arms/aid. Huh. I'm not even going to bring Manafort et al into this but ultimately this will be relevant too.

2nd the rest of you post re: SOTU and Covid ain't got shit to do with Ukraine. It is immaterial if I or others think the USA is on a better overall path or the merits of that opinion in this context.

But I do agree that blindspots exist universally... and how you receive information and your ability to discern well established data vs. disinformation/propaganda/jingoism is paramount to have an useful grasp on the situation - lacking all around. Some are not making any effort.

[KQ]

Because, as obvious as this all is to the rest of the world, Russians are being fed a steady stream of lies and propaganda and all forms of conveying reality are no longer "merely" censored (Russian's were never getting the straight goods anyway), but now ceased altogether. The US elected Trump for FFS. There are a lot of stupid, gullible, desperate, lost people in the US and Russia is no different; worse?

I've seen a couple clips over past 2 days with CBC correspondents on the streets of Moscow (when they could still be there) asking people about the war. The older folks support Putin is what I took away from it. The younger ones thought it was sad but not much more emotion. It was pretty messed up.

And yes, Putin is definitely gay (NTTAWWT), I agree.

It was no different with Hitler. He had his fans and apologists and even today we have holocaust deniers - stupid people are stupid or maybe they just like to be contrarian or perhaps they want to hope for the best - make lemonade and all that. Regardless, I still don't believe the majority of Russians are buying the propaganda and/or are not worldly.

I'm willing to bet that when Soviet era shortages return it's gonna be a whole 'nother ballgame esp. for those old enough to remember what it was like to stand in line for 8hr just for a loaf of bread.

This is all so sad. I work with, or rather did, many Russian and Ukranian artists through online workshops and classes but this last week they have all gone silent.

[simple]

Doesn’t look good….


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Makes the culture war so many people are fighting over seem so silly. Not seem..it is...

[MontuckyFried]

Just picked up a whole case of my favorite Ukrainian brandy and a bottle of their vodka. Liquor superstore had big labels on the shelves highlighting all the Ukrainian products of which there was a surprising amount actually! Load up while you can folks. They got one last massive shipment in today and said that might be it for a while, then they expect prices to rise sharply.

Gonna pick up another case next week if I can swing it. Shevkoff is really damn good stuff but I know there are other good Ukrainian brandies out there too.

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[J. Barron DeJong]

This thread continues to drift to polly ass and discussion of Trump. First, some of the stuff said about NATO is certainly true…I don’t know what the exact formula should be, but you can’t look at the defense budgets of the NATO members and not come to the conclusion that the US has carried more of the burden for many decades then it should. The other members have without a doubt taken advantage.

Germany just admitted as much!

It would appear that even with free access to information…humans can’t help but believe what they want to and ignore the hard truths that require them to question their past conclusions/decisions. The Trump supports are obviously very guilty of this and of hiding from reality…but take a look at some of the post here and “news” lately. Listen to Biden’s state of the union….he literally claims the country is in a great place since he became president and people just can’t see it because they are depressed about COVID….not only does he appear to believe this shit….half the left does too.

It is going to be really hard for Russians that supported Putin in the past to change directions…same as republicans and democrats that are simply loyal to one party.


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Kind of hard to discuss war but keep politics out of it.

Not sure what the *correct* formula is, but I believe NATO countries agree to spend 2% of GDP on defense. Not sure who meets that, but US exceeds it (which isn’t necessarily all upside). Germany hasn’t been meeting it, but much of Europe wasn’t too upset because of Germany’s, uh, ‘history’, but they’ve now committed to exceeding it.

[gretch6364]

Just picked up a whole case of my favorite Ukrainian brandy and a bottle of their vodka. Liquor superstore had big labels on the shelves highlighting all the Ukrainian products of which there was a surprising amount actually! Load up while you can folks. They got one last massive shipment in today and said that might be it for a while, then they expect prices to rise sharply.

Gonna pick up another case next week if I can swing it. Shevkoff is really damn good stuff but I know there are other good Ukrainian brandies out there too.

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Awesome!

Last week I Googled something like “why do Russian’s support Putin” and found many responses on like Reddit that had been written prior to this most recent Ukraine attack.

A lot of the Russian’s wrote about the crime and poverty before Putin and how all countries are corrupt and Russian corruption is just like everywhere else…Putin talked direct, etc.

It was very much like being in the mind of someone trapped in domestic violence. This was coming from Russian’s that were abroad and spoke English and saw other parts of the world….and they still couldn’t see what Putin had become and stolen from his people. The older generation that only speaks and reads Russian and remembers how bad life was right after the collapse is probably not going to come to terms with reality even now. Especially with the control of media that Putin has.

Think about how isolating the Russian language is if that is all you have learned to read and speak. I don’t know, but guessing English isn’t widely taught in Russian schools. How many places outside of Russia speak the language and write news, papers, etc.? Shut out BBC and other foreign sources that happen to have a Russian arm…I personally don’t have faith that enough Russians living in Russia have an independent world view and motivation to bring change.

Unless the sanctions really start starving them and push them back to 1970.


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[dunfree]

[QUOTE]War is simply the continuation of political intercourse with the addition of other means. We deliberately use the phrase 'with the addition of other means' because we also want to make it clear that war in itself does not suspend political intercourse or change it into something entirely different.[/QUOTE]It’s not hard, it’s impossible to talk war without politics

[dunfree]

The support of the Russian people doesn’t really matter to Putin. It’s nit even close to us politics. What matter is the rest, and he’s dealt himself a shit sandwich. Putins driven hesitant allies towards nato expansion, rearmed Germany, and shown the would that his legacy capacity (military,diplomacy) are rusty and don’t support his ambitions or bellicosity.

[Cono Este]

Everyone should post like it could be their last post.


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[Iowagriz]

I have a friend that's been buying nights via Airbnb in Ukraine. He then emails them to advise he is not actually arriving, but to keep the money. Pretty cool idea. He says he's gotten two responses back with photos from the people.

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[Cono Este]

Clearly this dumb fuck didn’t get my memo.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., was sharply criticized by fellow lawmakers on both sides of the aisle Thursday after saying that the "only way" to end the crisis in Ukraine is for Russians to assassinate President Vladimir Putin.


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[J. Barron DeJong]

Clearly this dumb fuck didn’t get my memo.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., was sharply criticized by fellow lawmakers on both sides of the aisle Thursday after saying that the "only way" to end the crisis in Ukraine is for Russians to assassinate President Vladimir Putin.


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It’s shockingly dumb if for no other reason than that a Senator has a real personal benefit from not making political assassinations an ‘acceptable thing’.

[John_B]

I have a friend that's been buying nights via Airbnb in Ukraine. He then emails them to advise he is not actually arriving, but to keep the money. Pretty cool idea. He says he's gotten two responses back with photos from the people.

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That's a really personal and sweet idea.

[Lvovsky]

Shalom Kyiv

https://twitter.com/i_army_org/statu...734733825?s=21

[highangle]

1st, it's hard to not have the line of sight between Trump and his treatment of NATO in this situation - NATO is the instrument that keeps Putin's greater ambitions at bay. Trump undermined and diminished it. Maybe if he shut the fuck up about Ukraine, the current admin and Putin - we'd have a chance to move past, but he doesn't so here we are. I mean the dude was impeached for coercing Ukraine to get dirt on a political opponent - to the tune of withholding arms/aid. Huh. I'm not even going to bring Manafort et al into this but ultimately this will be relevant too.

2nd the rest of you post re: SOTU and Covid ain't got shit to do with Ukraine. It is immaterial if I or others think the USA is on a better overall path or the merits of that opinion in this context.

But I do agree that blindspots exist universally... and how you receive information and your ability to discern well established data vs. disinformation/propaganda/jingoism is paramount to have an useful grasp on the situation - lacking all around. Some are not making any effort.

[KQ]

I have a friend that's been buying nights via Airbnb in Ukraine. He then emails them to advise he is not actually arriving, but to keep the money. Pretty cool idea. He says he's gotten two responses back with photos from the people.

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Same thing's been going on with the workshops I do. Some of the artists have been donating 100% of their tuition to aid organizations.

[ötzi]

Goodbye

FIFY

[Lvovsky]

https://rusi.org/explore-our-researc...air-operations

[panchosdad]

Clearly this dumb fuck didn’t get my memo.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., was sharply criticized by fellow lawmakers on both sides of the aisle Thursday after saying that the "only way" to end the crisis in Ukraine is for Russians to assassinate President Vladimir Putin.


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He's not wrong, but stupid to say so publicly.

[altacoup]

This was plain to see except those under the spell.

Constant barrage harsh words for NATO... calling then irrelevant and cheats for not "paying us"... going as far as call into question our support for nations that were 'under paying'. Shameful.

Putin never heard a non-complimentary word. "I believe him" and putting Putin's word over that of our Generals and intelligence. Sanctions...gone or reduced. Brought at his behest back into the G summit.

All for free. No concessions. No strategic relevant trade deals, arms reduction. Or anything. We. Got. Nothing.

It is simply amazing that we've been able to salve our long standing diplomatic relationships since... I doubt the trust has restored.

And a third of the country still worships him. The fact that he’s still alive is proof there’s no deep state. What a despicable horrible sub human asshole.


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[Cocximus]

Are you heading over?

These ex SF guys are going over because it gives them a good excuse to go fuck shit up and kill people. It’s not for some altruistic reason. Not getting paid highlights this. Mercenaries kill for money, these volunteers do it because they enjoy it.

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Ummm…Cocximus, what, are you asserting the US invented mercenaries, and are actually good at it?
Laughable.
Mercenaries are everywhere, and have been since civilization (war) began, I suspect.

Greatest country was too broad. Surely not the greatest humanitarian country. Maybe the greatest force? US has a good supply of fighters that are reasonably healthy, strong, well equipped and enthusiastic to go to war. Friends that live in eastern Europe want to be as far as possible. Many people would not even consider going to war even for a pile of cash. That makes the US a great force. I am in Canada, and kinda glad to have the US as neighbours. Maybe we can get a volunteer brigade of truckers to blow their horns in Ukraine.



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