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Thread: Ukraine
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09-19-2022, 01:14 PM #9676
Nice. One of Putin's looney Media puppets/politician /genral has threatened a nuclear first strike against Berlin and London.
But even the other propaganda talking heads reacted with embarrassed silence.It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.
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09-19-2022, 02:07 PM #9677Registered User
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09-20-2022, 12:43 AM #9678“I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.”
― Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country
www.mymountaincoop.ca
This is OUR mountain - come join us!
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09-20-2022, 08:38 AM #9679
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09-20-2022, 09:54 AM #9680
Putin really screwed up not invading while Trump was still in office. That disparity in Military aid would have been a perfect excuse for him to let Russia have Ukraine.
Aim for the chopping block. If you aim for the wood, you will have nothing. Aim past the wood, aim through the wood.
http://tim-kirchoff.pixels.com/
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09-20-2022, 09:58 AM #9681
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09-20-2022, 10:20 AM #9682
Ok, so instead of 108 times what France has provided, we have provided 43 times.
They should be repeatedly called out on this.sigless.
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09-20-2022, 10:22 AM #9683Registered User
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09-20-2022, 10:23 AM #9684
Not judging. They are after all a lot closer. Plus we are gearing them up for winter etc.
Yeah, France and Germany suck. Uk is embarrassing them all. But keep in mind how relatively small their militaries are. Not a lot to give I imagine and they probably have a better argument for holding on to more just in case. We don’t have that concern.
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09-20-2022, 10:23 AM #9685
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09-20-2022, 10:25 AM #9686
Exactly.
Actually, leave the US numbers off.
UK is outdoing Germany by a factor of 3.4?
POLAND of all places is doing 50% more than Germany even though Germany has >6X the GDP of Poland?
Czech, Latvia, Estonia, Canada and Australia are outdoing France????
That's fucking pathetic.Originally Posted by blurred
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09-20-2022, 10:33 AM #9687
How many VAB APVs did France give? They only said “significant numbers” and neither they nor Ukraine have said what that means. Not hard to see that of the announced type of aid provided by France the $230 million is probably an undershoot
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09-20-2022, 10:50 AM #9688
And don't forget they count all aid. The EU communists also give billions so the comparisom to the uk does not quite fit.. EU pledged 9 billion General aid. And at least 2.5 billion Military aid.
And I'm not sure they count all aid correctly since they only count Military aid in the Euro countries and all aid elsewhere?
Additionally,
Since Germany provides about 16% of the EU budget you can add roughly another 2 Billion in aid in the EU numbers.It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.
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09-20-2022, 10:51 AM #9689Registered User
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While they really need to do more, keep in mind that lots of money is funneled through the European institutions "the EU".
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...id-to-ukraine/
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09-20-2022, 11:01 AM #9690
Ah so it's at least 16billlions from all parts of the EU. Which would be more than 2.5 billions extra from Germany alone. Considering that we are putins closest ally ( plus having a pathetically underfunded Military), according to well informed Military experts from colorado, I think we're doing ok with about 4 billions.
But I enjoy summit's GO USA USA USA Military Focus in this thread.It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.
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09-20-2022, 11:13 AM #9691
Well, when taking into account Germany and France were the primary financiers of Putin's war machine the least they can do is provide aid to their victims. German elites who thought it was crazy to worry about the security of Russian gas supplies should apologize to their constituents and to the rest of Europe.
After all, Ukraine’s security is Europe's security. Towards that end Germany is, after much reluctance, providing more military aid than many realize. Although Germany is still playing games in an effort to also placate Russia by blocking Spain's plan to send their Leo II tanks to Ukraine.
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09-20-2022, 11:44 AM #9692
I guess based on that logic Putin should have finished the job in 2014 when Obama was in office, cause he sent the least aid and basically did Jack shit but ban Russian mail order brides and Ak-47’s.
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09-20-2022, 11:50 AM #9693
france & German corps also supplied arms material post 2014, Thales provided tank sights, etc.
I’m not sure how you run accounting when France gives money to the eu, who give money to Ukraine, and Ukraine buys 155mm howitzers from a low rent French Bobby https://www.s2m-equipment.fr/en/portfolio/canon-155-trf1
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09-20-2022, 11:50 AM #9694
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09-20-2022, 11:52 AM #9695
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09-20-2022, 11:53 AM #9696
France and Germany were also at the same time supplying arms in much greater quantities to Russia. The problem with Ostpolitik:
- Germany advocates change through trade. However, the policy of Ostpolitik or transforming authoritarian countries through trade can now be deemed a failure
- Germany ignored Nato warnings about overreliance on Russian gas
- Germany rejected nuclear power and now has few alternatives to Russian gas, although that is now changing
-Germany has an ongoing dispute with the United States over withholding trade with Russia. For +fifty years European business has gone the opposite direction as America
- “For thirty years, Germans lectured Ukrainians about fascism,” ... “When fascism actually arrived, Germans funded it, and Ukrainians died fighting it”
- German politicians admit they messed up. German president Frank-Walter Steinmeier admits he misread Russia’s intentions as he pursued the construction of a new undersea gas pipeline. “My adherence to Nord Stream 2 was clearly a mistake”
- The West should not trade with enemies of democracy. Germany is funding Russia's war of aggression and genocide on Ukraine
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09-20-2022, 12:00 PM #9697
The Leo Tanks are not usable anymore. The spanish army basically used them for parts or as a junkyard, but they are not funktional. It's not a political decision.
Actually Germany provides Support to slovenia so they can get their Tanks to ukraine. The German Gepard AA Tanks were a vital part of the Recent offensive because they were designed against Soviet air attacks and repelled them effectively ( supposedly ...rumor Mill here).
We don't have to discuss the German naivity anymore to think 20th century wars were a thing of the past or to change countries via trade or to Trust egomanical Diktators with criticsl ressources.
Some may have been bought as well, but I think most people, like me, just believed in Institutions and the everlasting peace Established with the EU and other Organisations after ww2.
Edit: Greed and laziness surely played a role as well. Germans like it cheap and easy.
Edit 2: i see you adressed that shortly after me yeah well in hindsight most politicians should have known.
Hell even I thought we don't need to spend 2% of our GDP on an army to go hunting for islamist weirdos. Putin Was like the weird uncle who beats his wife. You don't like him, but he still was part of the extended European family.
After 2014 people could have been more vigilant, but preferred the status quo.It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.
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09-20-2022, 12:00 PM #9698
Ja, but is it underfunding? Sure, a bit... DE should be >2% GDP
France manages to have a larger army, larger armored force, massively larger air force and navy, particularly having a global independent striking and expeditionary capability plus a nuclear triad... and France spends only 80% of what Germany has been spending. Germany might be able to mobilize 1 expeditionary brigade with advanced notice and by stripping other units. Russia initially attacked Ukraine with 38 brigades.
Where is the famed Germany efficiency?Originally Posted by blurred
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09-20-2022, 12:15 PM #9699It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.
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09-20-2022, 12:16 PM #9700
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