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Thread: Ukraine

  1. #15351
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    In 615 pages, has anyone criticized Bidens handling of this even once?

    No, because you put party before Ukraine.

    Hypocrites.

  2. #15352
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    Most here are more rightly appalled that so many (still a minority) of Republicans want to cut off support to Ukraine but that doesn't mean the Biden administration hasn't also seen its share of criticism:

    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    We are supporting Ukraine but not to the degree people seem to think. Folks need to update their priors on this issue. So far we haven't sent any tanks, any fighter aircraft, and any long range missiles like ATACMs. And we're slow walking the weapons we are sending. America has the largest numbers of tank reserves in world and we haven't sent any. Canada has the smallest in the world and they've sent Leopards. Europe sent Leopards, Challengers, French AMX, and Swedish Stridsvagn 122s. Each country pledged tanks at the same time.

    American military aid to Ukraine will determine the outcome of the war. Congress appropriated & authorized significant amounts of weapons & ammunition, including tanks. But the current admin is continuously slow walking & rationing every major weapon system supplied and is even refusing to draw down on military aid. Out of $45 billion allocated for military aid drawdowns, only ~$18 billion has been sent with another $6 billion set to expire at the end of September.
    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    Yeah, there's a lot of disagreement in Washington over Ukraine policy.

    Some of the same dickheads who said Ukraine would be overrun in a week or so, and delayed critical weapons (e.g. ATACMs) are now defaming Ukrainian offensives/sacrifices and its chances to the media. It's self-serving and disgraceful.
    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    Control over its air space would be the biggest factor. We are asking Ukraine to fight in a way that we would not, and to take casualties that we would not because Western military doctrine first and foremost calls for establishing air superiority.

  3. #15353
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    Jesus fuck, does Cono have dementia or something?

    People here are constantly saying to do more. Want me to say Biden should do more? Ok, Biden should do more.

    But itís not his side that just threatened to shut down the government and all they got in exchange for keeping it open was stripping Ukraine war funding out.

    I obviously donít know exactly what Biden is thinking, but certainly it wouldnít hurt in convincing him to provide more aid if a large chunk of elected officials werenít acting as if aiding Ukraine is a massive financial burden on the US, and is whatís keeping us from being able to secure the southern border.

    And sure, fuck Hunter Biden and his sleazy deals, but thereís no evidence Joe had anything to do with it. Fuck, just this week they held the first impeachment hearing and the primary witness they called said there was no evidence. But keep fucking that chicken.

  4. #15354
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    Hunter wasn't flying around the world on AF1 with his dad as POTUS ala JaKush with FIL Trump making side deals and out and out up front and in your face deals with the Saudis.

    It would be nice if Biden and NATO members would have stepped up weapons deliveries. But it probably comes down to training, logistics and maintenance of weapons and that whole manpower thing.

    I still remain astounded by how much ammo that Russia uses and loses on a daily basis.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  5. #15355
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    Since Cono is now very concerned about the amount of aid weíre giving Ukraine, hereís a thread of the latest being provided:

    https://x.com/noclador/status/170850...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Surely this will cheer him up.

  6. #15356
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    Toadman, no argument, another reason we don’t want him back. Legit too. but you do your job, and I’ll do mine. We’re both essential. But do that in the right thread.

    To be clear. I feel Ukraines only long term chance is to join nato. To do that. Make a fucking deal, or at least fucking try. Then legally they can join amd we can save what’s left before it’s too late.

    There is no plan, has been no plan, no accountability of funds, and yes, people lose trust when a presidents family takes millions from both sides in a war. The mayor of Moscows wife, Burisma, and god only knows what else.

    but a fathers live for his son!!! The war started in 2014. Should have been off limits to even us.

  7. #15357
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    All funds are accounted for and Ukraine is using the NATO weopons tracking system.

    Support for Ukraine amounts to about 3% of the annual American defense budget. Even then we're sending decades old already bought and paid for equipment priced by Pentagon bean counters in today's dollars.

    So for example, we send old 1960s era M113s that cost tax payers $100K at the time and value it at a million dollars when in reality they have negative value. We either have to pay to store them, or pay to dispose of them due to hazmat. The same is true of old artillery shells and DPCIMs. We're sending old 1980s era stingers and account for them at replacement cost for a modernized version to be used by American troops only.

    So when anti-Ukraine pro-Putin homers argue no accountability or say how can the Pentagon 'find' more funds it mostly comes down to how old outdated equipment is valued in terms of its modern made in America replacement.

  8. #15358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cono Este View Post

    Have they even gotten a single Abrahamís yet?
    Once the Abrahams start arriving itís on like Donkey Kong. (Whatís an Abrahams?)

  9. #15359
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    What Ďdealí is there to be had with Russia where part of the settlement is Ukraine joins NATO?

  10. #15360
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    Once the Abrahams start arriving itís on like Donkey Kong. (Whatís an Abrahams?)
    I donít know anything specific about Abrams capabilities, but a UKR officer was just saying this week that the battlefield doesnít allow large scale tank maneuvers, they just too vulnerable, getting picked up by drones within minutes.

    He also said that because they wonít be relying on mechanized warfare, the counteroffensive can continue the rough the muddy season with little slow down.

  11. #15361
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    Quantity & mass matters. “With Ukraine set to receive enough US tanks to equip a single battalion, few expect the Abrams to have a major impact on the battlefield.” We have plenty, 31 Abrams tanks isn't enough.

    "Advocates of tank warfare argue that poor strategy should not obscure the need for heavy armor in cutting through a line or holding territory once liberated. With the right strategic approach and the right air defense assets, tanks can continue to play a crucial battlefield role. Abandoning tanks entirely could also have grave consequences for troops on the ground. “Without tanks, a military involved in a large-scale ground war would have to rely on armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles to fill that same role, which would lead to a greater percentage of catastrophic losses,” observed Rob Lee."

    https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blog...-breakthrough/

  12. #15362
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    All funds are accounted for and Ukraine is using the NATO weopons tracking system.

    Support for Ukraine amounts to about 3% of the annual American defense budget. Even then we're sending decades old already bought and paid for equipment priced by Pentagon bean counters in today's dollars.

    So for example, we send old 1960s era M113s that cost tax payers $100K at the time and value it at a million dollars when in reality they have negative value. We either have to pay to store them, or pay to dispose of them due to hazmat. The same is true of old artillery shells and DPCIMs. We're sending old 1980s era stingers and account for them at replacement cost for a modernized version to be used by American troops only.

    So when anti-Ukraine pro-Putin homers argue no accountability or say how can the Pentagon 'find' more funds it mostly comes down to how old outdated equipment is valued in terms of its modern made in America replacement.
    Thank you for another bull shit insult. You’re doing Putins work for him dividing the country.

    It’s not the money, we pissed trillions away in fraudulent ppp loans.

    It’s the strategy. Or, lack of. Fighting a neighbor you share a 1599 K.M. border with, with railways right up to the frontline is a serious problem, especially if you can’t hit them. whats your solution Einstein?

    Nothing happens, until we send enough tanks and war planes and bomb those supply lines. They’ll just keep feeding the meat grinder. It’s like restrictions on bombing north Vietnam, it’s a loser.



    Look, I’m not summit, but I’ve collected copies of james fighting ships my whole life. I don’t think I’ve read a non military book, or any fiction in 25 yrs. Don’t discount what people say because it’s not what we hope for. Hope is a four letter word.

  13. #15363
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    I’ll be perfectly honest with you spoilt, call of duty playing Americans.

    1. I started therapy after a bad time 5 yrs ago. Lol. In it we went into some of these shot Inshouldn’t have seen growing up. Ya know, like Southwest africa, when it was at war with Angola. Specifically a bombing i witness when I was 8. bodies, blood and guts.body bags etc 10’feet in front of me. Have you ever seen anything like that?

    Also. Being English. I was filled with first hand stories of how close we came to losing in the summer of 1940. My gramps said one cigarette lite at night, would have given away the entire remainder of the RAF. That’s how close it came.

    So no, when fools make up shit like Putin apologists shit, instead of answering logical questions, then even if you are right. You are not ready for war. This country needs to fix its problems or fight it out first.

    If we are gonna escalate, let’s escalate. Send out letters from the selective service, confirming addresses. Let’s ramp up our war machine, let’s do it right. Europe too. Shit The English right now are so far out there. The cricket this summer has more concerned.

  14. #15364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cono Este View Post
    I’ll be perfectly honest with you spoilt, call of duty playing Americans.

    1. I started therapy after a bad time 5 yrs ago. Lol. In it we went into some of these shot Inshouldn’t have seen growing up. Ya know, like Southwest africa, when it was at war with Angola. Specifically a bombing i witness when I was 8. bodies, blood and guts.body bags etc 10’feet in front of me. Have you ever seen anything like that?

    Also. Being English. I was filled with first hand stories of how close we came to losing in the summer of 1940. My gramps said one cigarette lite at night, would have given away the entire remainder of the RAF. That’s how close it came.

    So no, when fools make up shit like Putin apologists shit, instead of answering logical questions, then even if you are right. You are not ready for war. This country needs to fix its problems or fight it out first.

    If we are gonna escalate, let’s escalate. Send out letters from the selective service, confirming addresses. Let’s ramp up our war machine, let’s do it right. Europe too. Shit The English right now are so far out there. The cricket this summer has more concerned.
    WTF bombing stories from Africa?
    You were in Angola?

    I was in Nigeria ; )

    The last year you warned of putins nukes on western Switzerland!

    Now you want boots on the moon!

    Your trolling is outstanding! I like your spins! But you ainít funny!

  15. #15365
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    Getting out of the forever war in Afghanistan was smart. Sloppy, but I credit them for just getting the fuck out.

    Getting into another forever war, proxy or not, in Ukraine is stupid.

    Driving us all right into chinas hand, Taiwan etc.

    Europe needs to step up more, and we need to get our act together at home, we’re about to go to war with eachother. We are not ready.
    Last edited by Cono Este; 10-02-2023 at 07:10 AM.

  16. #15366
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    Quote Originally Posted by twat View Post
    WTF bombing stories from Africa?
    You were in Angola?

    I was in Nigeria ; )

    The last year you warned of putins nukes on western Switzerland!

    Now you want boots on the moon!

    Your trolling is outstanding! I like your spins! But you ain’t funny!
    Nigeria, cool, never been.

    Nuclear war has been been a daily threat for 70 yrs. It’s just the condition of that threat. And it’s elevated right now.

    Anyone questioning that right now must be drugs.

  17. #15367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cono Este View Post
    Nigeria, cool, never been.

    Nuclear war has been been a daily threat for 70 yrs. It’s just the condition of that threat. And it’s elevated right now.

    Anyone questioning that right now must be drugs.
    Hey bro. You trolling so hard, it ainít funny. You sad you want escalation, you are happy about leaving Afghanistan. You afraid of nuking Switzerland. Changing your mind all the time. Your opinion. Fine.

  18. #15368
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    I’ve collected copies of james fighting ships my whole life.
    I think you mean Janes.

    GFY
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

    "Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"

  19. #15369
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    Conoís ready for war fellas, heís read lotsa books on it!

  20. #15370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cono Este View Post
    So no, when fools make up shit like Putin apologists shit, instead of answering logical questions, then even if you are right. You are not ready for war. This country needs to fix its problems or fight it out first.

    If we are gonna escalate, letís escalate. Send out letters from the selective service, confirming addresses. Letís ramp up our war machine, letís do it right. Europe too. Shit The English right now are so far out there. The cricket this summer has more concerned.
    Apologies to those who have him on ignore but youíre missing out on some quality, unhinged, entertainment.

  21. #15371
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
    Apologies to those who have him on ignore but youíre missing out on some quality, unhinged, entertainment.
    Pass.

  22. #15372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cono Este View Post
    This country needs to fix its problems or fight it out first.
    "Or fight it out" is the strongest tell that you're polluting your mind with enemy propaganda. Talking "national divorce" is their primary goal for our country. Demoralizing and dividing the west is Russia's only hope so yes, you and rod are both helping. Pick up some Sun Tzu next--and go back to therapy.

  23. #15373
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    Ukraine

    ^his life would vastly improve if he quit the booger sugar and booze too

  24. #15374
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong View Post
    I don’t know anything specific about Abrams capabilities, but a UKR officer was just saying this week that the battlefield doesn’t allow large scale tank maneuvers, they just too vulnerable, getting picked up by drones within minutes.

    He also said that because they won’t be relying on mechanized warfare, the counteroffensive can continue the rough the muddy season with little slow down.
    The next evolution in tank warfare is going to include anti-drone systems built/integrated into the tanks. Cope cages just aren't cutting it.
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  25. #15375
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    "Or fight it out" is the strongest tell that you're polluting your mind with enemy propaganda. Talking "national divorce" is their primary goal for our country. Demoralizing and dividing the west is Russia's only hope so yes, you and rod are both helping. Pick up some Sun Tzu next--and go back to therapy.
    The only answer to Russian and Chinese aggression is to bend over and take it like a man. Don't you know? CE is English so he knows more better than us dumb Mericans
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

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