Ukraine

[Cono Este]

So let me get this straight.

If Putin nukes Kharkiv, some of you would essentially be in support of melting all the snow in North America, burn all the trees, see millions of friends, family, neighbors, dogs cats etc dead or suffering from radiation sickness, by nuking Russia in response.

All because of the Donbas, a word most in here had never heard of before 2022 or 2014.

Do I get this part right?

[subtle plague]

So let me get this straight.

If Putin nukes Kharkiv, some of you would essentially be in support of melting all the snow in North America, burn all the trees, see millions of friends, family, neighbors, dogs cats etc dead or suffering from radiation sickness, by nuking Russia in response.

All because of the Donbas, a word most in here had never heard of before 2022 or 2014.

Do I get this part right?

Ah it's just kharkiv. And who needs Warsaw or Berlin. We shouldnt sacrifice our brave fellow Americans for those shit hole places. And while we're at it would you really send nukes in Response if he got rid of those east coast elites in New York? Wouldn't our brave patriots in the heartland be better off without them?

[SumJongGuy]

So let me get this straight.

If Putin nukes Kharkiv, some of you would essentially be in support of melting all the snow in North America, burn all the trees, see millions of friends, family, neighbors, dogs cats etc dead or suffering from radiation sickness, by nuking Russia in response.

All because of the Donbas, a word most in here had never heard of before 2022 or 2014.

Do I get this part right?

Nuclear Winter solves global warming amirite?? Seriously though, my hope (all our hopes) is that someone takes Putin out before there is global nuclear escalation.

[Cono Este]

Ah it's just kharkiv. And who needs Warsaw or Berlin. We shouldnt sacrifice our brave fellow Americans for those shit hole places. And while we're at it would you really send nukes in Response if he got rid of those east coast elites in New York? Wouldn't our brave patriots in the heartland be better off without them?

I think a serious conversation, involving the involuntary sacrifice of millions of innocent American men, women and small children, deserves to be A political. Because a Satan missile does not discriminate between libtards and Trumptards.

At what point does anyone take this seriously?

[dunfree]

If we are being serious- there is no strategic purpose for Russia to deploy nuclear weapons in Ukraine, only petulant pique and the urge for genocide. Which are good reasons to retaliate. If you normalize the use of nukes for such idiotic purposes as Putin would, your feared apocalypse is coming sooner rather than later cunty

[m2711c]

Yep.

[Tri-Ungulate]

A midway response is that since Russia has violated the terms of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, that we would re-arm (or at least threaten to re-arm) Ukraine with tactical nukes as a response to tactical nuke use by Putin. Still super dangerous and on that slippery slope to MAD, but a not-unreasonable approach.

[jono]

If we are being serious- there is no strategic purpose for Russia to deploy nuclear weapons in Ukraine, only petulant pique and the urge for genocide. Which are good reasons to retaliate. If you normalize the use of nukes for such idiotic purposes as Putin would, your feared apocalypse is coming sooner rather than later cunty

This has to be the western position or MAD fails and weakness invites escalation.

More seriously, Cono, Pootin doesn't want to use nukes. He wants to use the collective suffering and focused hatred of the Russian people exactly as Orwell predicted, to maintain his hold on power. The destruction of the Russian economy and deaths of 100k young men would mean nothing to him if it keeps him safely in power. Regime change is his greatest fear and even the hope of restoring the Russian empire is a distant second in his priorities.

If we want Pootin out as our first goal we should show weakness and invite escalation so we can go after him. If our goal is to prevent death and suffering, even if that means Pootin lives out his natural life in power, then we have to be convincingly resolute in our willingness to retaliate--we have to help his unwillingness to escalate look merciful and wise to his domestic audience.

[Cono Este]

Yep.

That’s fine, but your Sierra Club and green peace cards have been revoked.

So Putin nukes Ukraine, we unload the silos and subs. (Good thing Biden would never agree with you).

Any other homicidal maniacs want to step and decide for all of us what lives or dies?

[skaredshtles]

Srsly - you guys should put that complete fuckin' moron on Ignore. At a minimum don't quote his completely unhinged babbling.

[m2711c]

Never had any of those things. You make a lot of assumptions.

[4matic]

Rest day for the UA?



Mark Hertling

@MarkHertling

My experience in combat - as well as at our Army's national training center, where we study this - is that units will begin to fail if they aren't rested on day 5 of an offensive.

And commanders/leaders start making really bad decisions after 3 days of little/no sleep

[J. Barron DeJong]

Whelp, there goes another talking point:



https://twitter.com/iikkakorhonen/st...XFQMwy4Rc0jLHA

And related:



https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/...XFQMwy4Rc0jLHA

[subtle plague]

Srsly - you guys should put that complete fuckin' moron on Ignore. At a minimum don't quote his completely unhinged babbling.

Sorry. I have him on ignore, but sometimes I Click. My flesh is weak.

[LHutz Esq]

That’s fine, but your Sierra Club and green peace cards have been revoked.

So Putin nukes Ukraine, we unload the silos and subs. (Good thing Biden would never agree with you).

Any other homicidal maniacs want to step and decide for all of us what lives or dies?

So what's your option?

Ignore it and hope that doesn't embolden him to use or threaten to use the nuclear option to take Ukraine? What do we allow him to get next? Poland, Lithuania, how about Germany?

Is our response to "tut-tut" and be thankful that it doesn't affect gas prices in Buffalo - until it does?

The shitty thing about nukes is that the only way to keep others from using them is being prepared to use them as well. Sucks, but until we are in a nuclear free world it really is the only thing keeping someone like Putin from going all out. He doesn't care about the people of Kiev, or the lovely green planet, or the people of Buffalo.

Putin is the one making the choice here. Luckily he still seems to value is own skin if no one else's.

[MultiVerse]

My experience in combat - as well as at our Army's national training center, where we study this - is that units will begin to fail if they aren't rested on day 5 of an offensive.

And commanders/leaders start making really bad decisions after 3 days of little/no sleep

Pilot fatigue probably best explains the Russian Su-25 crash shortly after takeoff that was discussed a page or two back.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I’m not sure what Cono is worried about, no one wants anything to do with St Louis, it’s already a post apocalyptic wasteland.

[Toadman]

It wasn't all a cake walk taking back a few thousand sq KM's of land. Hopefully UA forces are recovering, resupplying, securing the logistics and repurposing lots of captured Russian ammo for going after what's left of Russian forces in the East of Ukraine.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...offensive.html

[uglymoney]

President Hangle, this is SECDEF. You'll need to put down your Smirnoff Ice and sit down. We are facing an extremely serious situation. 3 minutes ago, a Russian SS-26, origin Belarus, detonated a nuclear warhead over Ukranian positions near Mykolaiv. COMNORAD initiated a full attack conference, and I concur with attack condition bravo. At this time we have no further launch indications from within Russia or Belarus. You mentioned on TGR that this would call retaliation, so we have moved to DEFCON 1. Which attack option would you like to order sir?

Remember that the Russians will view any nuclear strike by our forces against Russia as a US first strike.

Mr President? What are your order sir?

This is your wheel house, so I am asking.

We don't need nukes to bring Putin to his knees. An in kind non nuclear response to a Russian tactical nuke could be conventional right? Putin knows his shit would be completely fucked in Ukraine if we went to town.

A small nuclear response, if required, would likely be targeting a remote Russian military base.

US nuclear doctorine, or theory on what it is, is something I know little to nothing about, beyond rudimentary grasp of the nuclear deterrent theories we all get taught in 2nd grade.

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk

[Cono Este]

So what's your option?

Ignore it and hope that doesn't embolden him to use or threaten to use the nuclear option to take Ukraine? What do we allow him to get next? Poland, Lithuania, how about Germany?

Is our response to "tut-tut" and be thankful that it doesn't affect gas prices in Buffalo - until it does?

The shitty thing about nukes is that the only way to keep others from using them is being prepared to use them as well. Sucks, but until we are in a nuclear free world it really is the only thing keeping someone like Putin from going all out. He doesn't care about the people of Kiev, or the lovely green planet, or the people of Buffalo.

Putin is the one making the choice here. Luckily he still seems to value is own skin if no one else's.

Anyone who thinks we’re obligated to respond in kind to Putin using a nuke in Ukraine should be demanding immediate acceptance into NATO for Ukraine. I’m not opposed to that. That would lay down the law and there would be no confusion about it.

But yet that’s not happening. So you can all put me on ignore for asking why we’d send such convoluted message, in a time where a small mistake could mean the end for millions of defenseless innocent people. And the trees, let’s not forget about them.

[ex-powderbroker]

no matter what it will be our fault according to cono logic.

[dunfree]

Pilot error almost certainly. He turned into the leading planes wake too close and too slow causing wing/control surface stall and with no time to recover straight into the ground...boom. Man they are losing a lot of planes lately.

I don't follow the radical right Russia propagandists but I think this shit is worth mentioning for irony. Just a complete mirror of reality.

https://twitter.com/MattGertz/status...ySCIsxHJw&s=19

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk

loss of pilots might hurt more than the planes. Wagner/other mercs are recruiting a whole range of pilots the official force doesn’t want. Su-24,su-25, mig-29

[LHutz Esq]

Anyone who thinks we’re obligated to respond in kind to Putin using a nuke in Ukraine should be demanding immediate acceptance into NATO for Ukraine. I’m not opposed to that. That would lay down the law and there would be no confusion about it.

But yet that’s not happening. So you can all put me on ignore for asking why we’d send such convoluted message, in a time where a small mistake could mean the end for millions of defenseless innocent people. And the trees, let’s not forget about them.

NATO not NATO isn't the question. It is "a" question and the answer is yes they should be part of NATO. Remember when your ilk was arguing that Ukraine shouldn't be allowed into NATO as that would cause Putin to escalate? Escalate to the point of using the nuclear option?

The question asked was Putin delivers a nuke to Kiev- what should the rest of the world do?

You are obviously not on ignore - but you are really really trying hard to answer the basic question. As you have throughout this entire "special operation".

[J. Barron DeJong]

https://twitter.com/kyivpost/status/...XFQMwy4Rc0jLHA

My understanding from Rod is that the US decides whether to negotiate for peace, so not really sure what’s going on here….

[jono]

Anyone who thinks we’re obligated to respond in kind to Putin using a nuke in Ukraine should be demanding immediate acceptance into NATO for Ukraine.

What obligates us to respond in-kind is the desire to maintain the effectiveness of our nuclear deterrent. It fails to be a deterrent if we won't use it when someone else does.

Since above author is not familiar with article 5 (from wikipedia):

"Article 5

The key section of the treaty is Article 5. Its commitment clause defines the casus foederis. It commits each member state to consider an armed attack against one member state, in Europe or North America, to be an armed attack against them all. Upon such attack, each member state is to assist by taking "such action as [the member state] deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area." "

Article 5 means that no state can be admitted to NATO while there is an active border conflict (such that they are presently under attack) unless all member states agree to enter the war on their behalf as of their admission. That wouldn't require an in-kind response to nukes by every member, but it would require boots on the ground to kick Russia out of Ukraine. That is the required response because, again, deterrent only works if you're willing to use it.