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Thread: Ukraine
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05-15-2022, 10:43 AM #7776
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05-15-2022, 11:43 AM #7777
No, they aren't.
Germany was not an interventionist installation of democracy. We stopped an already ongoing world war. Same goes for Japan. The mere fact there is a 'South' to the South Korea, and the counterpoint to that is the obvious 'North' Korea, means we didn't really succeed. The existence of South Korea doesnt counterbalance the existence of North Korea in the world or its effect on its people.You've got three examples and two of them are completely false, only one is arguably true, the examples to the contrary are legion.
That word installing is the hangup though. We can influence things without wars and CIA assassinations and coups. In fact, if democracy is so great (which I believe it is) we shoudln't need those things and they actually undermine the cause of democracy by creating anti American sentiment that these days becomes stupidly pro China as a contrarian thing. It also muddies the waters with business interests and capitalism taking precedence over democracy.__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
"We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats
"I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso
Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.
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05-15-2022, 11:48 AM #7778
Maybe. Maybe not. Bet thatmakes your ears ring.
Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.
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05-15-2022, 11:52 AM #7779
I've reread Art of War twice since the start of the pandemic. Quite useful in dealing with a chaotic world and retaining sanity in a world of dis and misinformation.
I don't say Gates is evil but hes not exactly good either. We should not trust him or Musk or any of the others. We have a responsibility as citizens of a democracy to do more than just vote, but to have discourse and find things to agree about so we can form unity and not be controlled by the rich. Anyone who trusts Gates to have their best interests at heart is a fool. That is not divisionist.
Honestly I'm just glad you guys admit Russian interference is happening. I remember talking about it here during the last election and being told by many people that was ridiculous, specifically the idea that multiple new accounts here and on other sites arguing divisionist bullshit were possibly russian trolls, and that the people calling up rural police depts and telling them antifa were coming to get them were probably foriegn state sponsored actors. I remember being told Russia wouldn't waste time and money on that even though it wouldn't cost them hardly anything.__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
"We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats
"I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso
Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.
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05-15-2022, 11:57 AM #7780
Oh I believe they exist, just like racists exist, but racism is also used to fuel a moral panic that far outstrips the actual existence of racism and creates more division than the racism does. Just saw an article today about a bunch of times people on college campuses reported the existence of a 'noose' hanging somewhere on campuses that turned out to be just a piece of rope, sometimes a slipknot, but not a noose. One was a wire hanging from the end of a crane. One was just a piece of rope on the ground that wasn't even knotted. I know we're told that if we are compassionate we should support trans rights no matter what, but why right now in our history are we willing to accept disrupting society and creating division to cater to the needs of less than half a percent of our population in ways that arguably don't even benefit them?
There is a fringey left as well. And theres a lot of people who discount polarization as a problem because no the problem is just the other side.
If we're going to overcome polarization it needs to be a responsibly that we all embrace to collectively to be more than 'right' about things, but to be productive and produce good outcomes and bridge the divide between us and those not like us.Last edited by leroy jenkins; 05-15-2022 at 12:26 PM.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
"We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats
"I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso
Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.
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05-15-2022, 12:06 PM #7781
Agreed. So what is the opposite of that, and how to we manifest the opposite of division? Some peoples ears are always going to be closed, but most people dont like either of our political parties these days. How do we nurture democracy and unity of the people when our government is increasingly authoritarian and owned by companies that are in bed with authoritarian foreign powers, billionaires have more wealth and power than most countries and dubious motives, and we are being actively divided from without and within?
Much of the left doesn't realize what they are pushing is destructive either. The fact is this place is pretty left leaning, but spends more time talking about MAGA Trumptards (polarizing slur I know but I need to virtue signal I'm not a Putinist right?) than it does talking about anything productive in terms of a path forward for our country.__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
"We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats
"I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso
Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.
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05-15-2022, 12:09 PM #7782
Yea, China also benefits from this ,and even though them and Russia are not allies and kind of are frenemies, they both benefit from this.
So how do we overcome it? I think its going to take more than just not feeding into it. Its going to take collectively waking up and realizing all our pet favorite ideas that we attach our ego to aren't as important as finding things we can all agree about to focus on and find people to elect based on that agreement and not the things we disagree about while electing people owned by corporations whos interests are far from matching our own.__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
"We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats
"I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso
Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.
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05-15-2022, 12:17 PM #7783
But at the same time there is so much valid both sides ism. The reasonable response to that isn't to check out cynically and doomerishly and just say ahh fuck it both sides suck none of it matters. If both sides have problems we need to manifest something better and have a collective responsibility to do a lot more than just vote and not feed into bad things.
(TLDR version, all my recent posts are basically saying the same thing, but quoted different peeps because I want your thoughts and replies.)__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
"We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats
"I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso
Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.
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05-15-2022, 12:43 PM #7784
FIFY
#trumpcountry
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"once i let go of my material desires many opportunities for playing with the planet emerge. emerge - to come into being through evolution. ok back to work - i gotta pack." - Slaag Master
"As for Flock of Seagulls, everytime that song comes up on my ipod, I turn it up- way up." - goldenboy
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05-15-2022, 01:15 PM #7785
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05-15-2022, 02:47 PM #7786
Russian state media on Finland & Sweden joining NATO: Their official reason is fear. But they’ll have more fear in NATO when NATO bases appear in Sweden & Finland. Russia will have no choice but to neutralize the imbalance & new threat through tactical nuclear weapons.
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05-15-2022, 02:55 PM #7787Registered User
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05-15-2022, 07:00 PM #7788Registered User
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05-15-2022, 07:46 PM #7789
Talking about gun fondling limp dicked performative grievance narcissists
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05-15-2022, 08:21 PM #7790
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05-15-2022, 08:24 PM #7791
Turkey looking to cock block Finland and Sweden from joining NATO. More probable that Erdogan wants to extort them for personal gain.
"We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch
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05-15-2022, 08:27 PM #7792man of ice
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Curious what you think of his attempt to address that: https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/...70885464547329
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05-15-2022, 09:08 PM #7793
there’s a live stream from a Ukrainian journalist today that adds more Russian failure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9OoSaTUiUY
drone photoge begins at a little past 21 minutes. Kinda want to canoe around tanks now
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05-15-2022, 09:10 PM #7794
He sez it’s because both Sweden and Finland provide safe harbor to PKK. But, yeah…he’s looking for something - like making Bayraktars The Official UAV of NATO
His analysis seems meticulous. O’Brian’s earlier tweets just said his source was UKR MoD, didn’t see anything about adjustment.
UKR MoD claimed 1195 tanks destroyed by March 15, which they later reduced to 389
They originally estimated 1500 casualties from the Orc’s river crossing disaster a few days ago, now saying just under 500
So yeah…adjusted numbers good, raw numbers straight from Ukraine MoD notsomuch
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05-15-2022, 10:37 PM #7795The Ukrainian destruction of significant elements of a Russian motorized rifle brigade that tried to cross a pontoon bridge over the Siverskyi Donets River on May 11 has shocked prominent Russian milbloggers. Those bloggers have begun commenting on the incompetence of the Russian military to their hundreds of thousands of followers. The attempted river crossing showed a stunning lack of tactical sense as satellite images show (destroyed) Russian vehicles tightly bunched up at both ends of the (destroyed) bridge, clearly allowing Ukrainian artillerymen to kill hundreds and destroy scores of vehicles with concentrated strikes.When the Ukrainians or the US or the Brits cut loose, you don't want to be clustered up downrange...
The milbloggers who have hitherto been cheering on the Russian military criticized Russian armed forces leadership for failing to learn from experience in the war. They also expressed the concern that the constant pushing of Russia’s propaganda lines was making it hard for them to understand what was actually going on.
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05-16-2022, 06:01 AM #7796
Finland and Sweden joining Nato would turn the mighty Baltic Sea Fleet into Putin's St. Petersburg and Kaliningrad Bath Toys
Scientists now have decisive molecular evidence that humans and chimpanzees once had a common momma and that this lineage had previously split from monkeys.
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05-16-2022, 07:57 AM #7797
Guess we got the brutal Seversky Donets river attack, in which we were told some 400 orcs died, all backwards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMEZtOapZ_c
https://russian.rt.com/ussr/article/...raciya-donbass
All the news that ain`t fit to print!
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05-16-2022, 08:06 AM #7798man of ice
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What's with the description of nos. 16-24 in the center of the first image?
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05-16-2022, 08:18 AM #7799
clusterfuck aka not great not terrible
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05-16-2022, 11:10 AM #7800man of ice
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I know, but it's supposed to be a still from Russian (they claim, at least) video, so what sense does that caption make? And even if they stole the whole thing including the captions from the Ukrainians, that caption still doesn't make much sense to me. It makes more sense as a third-party analysis of the results.
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