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Thread: Ukraine
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04-28-2022, 08:30 PM #7001Rod9301
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04-28-2022, 08:32 PM #7002Rod9301
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04-28-2022, 08:34 PM #7003
What are the consequences of inaction in this situation? When do we draw the line? Peace through appeasement isn’t worth it. Furthermore peace through appeasing the wants of dictators and strongmen never lasts.
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04-28-2022, 08:37 PM #7004
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04-28-2022, 08:41 PM #7005
Russia spent the last 70 years threatening the West with nuclear annihilation. Russia spent the last 30 years since the Cold War ended trying to weaken the US & Europe. It spent the last decade trying to erase Ukrainian democracy.
Now Russia is busted up militarily thanks to Ukrainian resistance. Depriving Russia of the ability to launch another land-war in Europe isn't some sinister plan: it is common sense.
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04-28-2022, 08:52 PM #7006
Damnit rod, simping for a genocidal maniac without pay is really individualist. Yah got me, hope ya happy
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04-28-2022, 08:59 PM #7007
rod9301 = Ghost of Ceaușescu
NATO/US is only seeking to contain a kleptocracy. Will democracy flourish or even survive in Ukraine? Not sure, but better than than the bullshit Putin has put down on his watch for the last 20 odd years.
US has had deeply flawed foreign policy subject to its own goals and realpolitik, but this is goddamn simple- FUCK PUTIN.
Ukraine/Poland/ shit even shitbag Orban in Hungary do not want to be in the Russian sphere- maybe Romania and Moldova do? Serbia definitely does.
Let us know about that Rod.The market is dominated by fat skis largely because young toughs want what they see in videos: organ donors hucking into heliski bowls. -Seth Masia
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04-28-2022, 09:01 PM #7008
Betcha $37 his social media feeds are a smorgasbord of misinformation and right wing conspiracies.
sigless.
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04-28-2022, 09:01 PM #7009
Romania wants to be aligned with Europe, not Russia. Romania has been sending weapons and aid to Ukraine as well as taking in huge numbers of Ukrainian refugees. Moldova is in a tough spot because of Russian tentacles but they too would like to be free from Russia's yoke.
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04-28-2022, 09:03 PM #7010Rod9301
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Not sure what you're asking me to say
I escaped from Romania in conditions that i wouldn't want to repeat, and gave me nightmares once a year for many years.
So Russia is not my favorite country.
But i think the sanctions were hastily conceived, by politicians, and they do not work as intended.
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04-28-2022, 09:06 PM #7011man of ice
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Haste was pretty much of the essence, rod.
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04-28-2022, 09:14 PM #7012
This is what I imagined, and sorry for the pointed remarks.
But, when you say where democracy can't take root, well Russia for sure- but elsewhere in Eastern Europe, seems like the slide to liberal democratic values has been ongoing for quite a while and that is what has provoked Putin.
Why should Ukraine remain under the yoke of Russia when the Baltics, Poland, Hungary, and the rest of Central and Southern Europe have chosen to break away?The market is dominated by fat skis largely because young toughs want what they see in videos: organ donors hucking into heliski bowls. -Seth Masia
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04-28-2022, 09:16 PM #7013
Ukraine
You keep saying this…
Sanctions are working as intended.
What may be different in your mind is that you somehow think they should be definitively undermining Russia on par with destroying cities or removing entire sectors of the economy.
It is a slow motion tool that cripples the country over time. The level of crippling may not be complete collapse, tho conditions in another situation might make that one end of the spectrum of possibilities.
Our admin & the participating coalition of countries understand this. And they still deployed this strategy.
Sanctions have not failed. They are doing their job. They have put Russia under pressure in a number of facets of their economy.
And yes, there are costs outside of RU to pursue this strategy.
Perfection isn’t the standard - the world is messy.
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04-28-2022, 09:17 PM #7014Rod9301
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I'm not convinced that that's what provoked putin.
I think Russia felt threatened by the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO.
But probably not the only thing.
But just like in the late 40s when Soviet union essentially occupied eastern Europe and the west did nothing, why should we get involved now?
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04-28-2022, 09:19 PM #7015
Communism was horrible, why should we do anything is a hell of a take
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04-28-2022, 09:23 PM #7016
Finland, should we let them go? Who else is ok to let the crazy man take over and kill?
You say you don't like Russia, but then turn around and parrot Putin talking points and whataboutism.
What's the deal? Too much fox news?
Just thinking for yourself, right?sigless.
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04-28-2022, 09:27 PM #7017
So people won't have to go through living under and then escaping a dictatorship like you did?
This is why I am so flumoxed by your take on this. Russia has clearly lost in the battle of ideals with its former vassal states. No one is buying what they are selling except for oil and gas.The market is dominated by fat skis largely because young toughs want what they see in videos: organ donors hucking into heliski bowls. -Seth Masia
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04-28-2022, 09:29 PM #7018
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04-28-2022, 09:31 PM #7019
This is Rod
Please do not feed
Basinbeater and XavierD - thanks for the succinct and informative posts
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04-28-2022, 09:31 PM #7020
No, Putin is very much threaded by thriving free economic activity on his boarder. Makes it hard to be a dictator. Why do you think Kim is so worried about his peeps watching South Korean soap operas?
We were involved when the iron curtain fell. Ever hear of the Berlin Airlift?
Where is your line of Putin appeasement? Poland? Berlin? Paris? You know that little Fuck, Putin, is having wet dreams every night about the largest of Russian imperialist borders.
Also, if you had the ability to go back to 1930 and get “involved” would you have interfered with Stalin’s Holodomor?
This is an ongoing genocide a 100 years in the making and a tremendous geopolitical crisis. Either of these reasons on their own are reason to get “involved.”
For fuck sake Russia hit Kiev with cruise missiles during the UN GS visit today, the same UN GS that had just left Moscow.
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04-28-2022, 09:39 PM #7021
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04-28-2022, 09:47 PM #7022
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04-28-2022, 10:40 PM #7023
1940's Lend Lease Act is being reinstated
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3...o-bidens-desk/Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.
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04-28-2022, 11:18 PM #7024
I'm actually really fascinated by this. Ukraine already has an long history of weapons manufacturing, and since 2014 they have quite the busy bees in ramping up R&D as well as exports. Hmmmm, I wonder what might have inspired them to make such a move?
Even if Putin's regime somehow manages to retain a chunk of Ukraine, the nation's armament industry will undoubtedly cement its pivot towards NATO. Lend-lease seems like it'll be a shot in the arm for their weapons industry. Throw in a fully-traumatized society from this war, and over the long-term Ukraine will become a military bastion. Not only will they arm themselves to the teeth for future generations, but they are going to be catalyst for other nations to follow in their footsteps and continue self-arming.
That could be quite a shift to see in geopolitics. It may be unavoidable at this point. So fuck you Putin. I hope whatever that drove you to do all this is worth it for you in the end, because this shit is going to fuck up the world for a looooong time.
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04-29-2022, 01:42 AM #7025click here
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Not entirely positive to have Eastern Europe armed. I recently saw a Europe map of percentage of citizens who felt their national territory is bounded by the current boundaries. For the western Europeans, almost everyone agreed the borders are ok. For Eastern Europeans, less so. In several countries most agreed the borders are drawn wrong. The implication being that there's a reasonable chance instability one day leads to wars of conquest.
But yes there's likely big geopolitical changes coming. Nobody near Russia will be happy with its current military policy. Countries far away will see their food and energy supplies disrupted, causing political issues and maybe unrest.
Did someone post about Russia hauling away Ukraine's grain stores? So many outrageous crimes, it's tough to keep track.
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