Ukraine

[ex-powderbroker]

With friends like MBS and Erdogan, who needs enemies?

[Percy Rideout]

Even so, it's important to recognize that negotiations were never real from the Kremlin's standpoint. Russia made a mockery of negotiations leading up to its unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

If Russia were to say they now want to negotiate it's because Russia would benefit from a ceasefire as a ploy to regroup. The Russian army is depleted and Ukraine is successfully counterattacking.

That's why we can expect to see the Tucker Carlson/Glenn Greenwald crowd come out of the woodwork in support of a pro-Russia resolution to the invasion. They'll call for "peace" to rescue Putin from his debacle.

Is the goal here to end this invasion or drive Putin from power? Your post above seems to indicate the latter.

It might sound simple in your head, but these are two different goals.

These competing goals have different strategies, allies, enemies, and of course consequences.

There are a few scenarios (think pipedream) where we can accomplish both, but then the likelihood of a hot war and potential nuclear exchange goes up exponentially, and no rational mind (or the American populace) wants that.

[MultiVerse]

As previously discussed the goal WRT to Russia's unprovoked invasion is peace on Ukraine's terms.

Beyond the war itself the West's long term strategic goal should be for a democratic resurgence in Russia. Sanctions should remain in place until that happens. The West should work to cease all Russian petroleum imports because energy dependence on Russia is suicide.

Russia is the wolf at the door. Russia is our enemy. The Ukrainian people are showing us what too many of us have forgotten, that democracy is worth fighting for. The Russians have nukes, tanks, guided missiles, and all sorts of other nasty stuff. We should not be in the business of fighting Putin’s propaganda war for him while he fights a real war against democracy in Ukraine.

[dunfree]

Is the goal here to end this invasion or drive Putin from power? Your post above seems to indicate the latter.

It might sound simple in your head, but these are two different goals.

These competing goals have different strategies, allies, enemies, and of course consequences.

There are a few scenarios (think pipedream) where we can accomplish both, but then the likelihood of a hot war and potential nuclear exchange goes up exponentially, and no rational mind (or the American populace) wants that.

asspan, new name, same stupid bullshit

[chaka]

Saudi Arabia: great ally, or greatest ally?

Attachment 416253

https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/...C50Oz6HWtoPTNA

the punishment for that mustache should be death by bone saw...

[rod9301]

You've got it backwards. The Kremlin refuses to have any contact our Executive and State Department despite the fact the American government continues to reach out. Putin also refused to meet with Biden before the Russian invasion.

Not true , it was Biden who refused to meet with Putin, and on the eve of the invasion, Putin said, time for talks is over.

It's a shame that the us is not taking a protective stance in pushing for negotiations

It sure seems that there's no interest on our part in peace.

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[rod9301]

It's not our war, we don't get to decide how it ends. That's Zelensky's and Europe's job.

True, but with the 40 billion going to arms manufacturers and Ukraine, and maybe someone's pockets, zelenski thinks he can win. In the meantime, more people die.

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[dunfree]

Not true , it was Biden who refused to meet with Putin, and on the eve of the invasion, Putin said, time for talks is over.

It's a shame that the us is not taking a protective stance in pushing for negotiations

It sure seems that there's no interest on our part in peace.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

The only thing that’s gonna get Putin to the table is defeat. If you can’t see that, yer stupid, or your brain has rotted from moron media

how many Russians died today in Ukraine for nothing rod? What do you think is gonna change putins calculation?

[rod9301]

Read the already provided responses upthread about "picking up the phone."

As for diplomacy to stop the Russian invasion Putin refused all overtures:

"U.S. and European leaders held a video call. “I think the last person who could still do something is you, Joe. Are you ready to meet Putin?” Mr. Macron said to Mr. Biden. The U.S. president agreed and asked Mr. Macron to pass the message to Mr. Putin.

Mr. Macron spent the night of Feb. 20 alternately on the phone with Mr. Putin and Mr. Biden.

The Frenchman was still talking with Mr. Putin at 3 a.m. Moscow time, negotiating the wording of a press release announcing the plan for a U.S.-Russian summit.

But the next day, Mr. Putin called Mr. Macron back. The summit was off.

Mr. Putin said he had decided to recognize the independence of separatist enclaves in eastern Ukraine. He said fascists had seized power in Kyiv, while NATO hadn’t responded to his security concerns and was planning to deploy nuclear missiles in Ukraine.

“We are not going to see each other for a while, but I really appreciate the frankness of our discussions,” Mr. Putin told Mr. Macron. “I hope we can talk again one day.”"

Where did you get this? Biden saying he wants to talk to position is not true

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[ex-powderbroker]

Not true , it was Biden who refused to meet with Putin, and on the eve of the invasion, Putin said, time for talks is over.

It's a shame that the us is not taking a protective stance in pushing for negotiations

It sure seems that there's no interest on our part in peace.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[MultiVerse]

Not true , it was Biden who refused to meet with Putin, and on the eve of the invasion, Putin said, time for talks is over.

It's a shame that the us is not taking a protective stance in pushing for negotiations

It sure seems that there's no interest on our part in peace.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

Where did you get this? Biden saying he wants to talk to position is not true

It is true according to your source materiel. Biden did agree to meet with Putin. You provided a source earlier in thread thread that misquoted and cherrypicked a Wall Street Journal article. I followed your source to the actual WSJ article which is what you see in the quoted text above. According to your source it was Putin not Biden who refused diplomacy.

[neufox47]

From you. You provided a source earlier in thread thread that misquoted and cherrypicked a Wall Street Journal article. I followed your source to the actual WSJ article which is what you see in the quoted text above.

Lol. dO yOuR OwN ResEarCH

[rod9301]

It is true according to your source materiel. Biden did agree to meet with Putin. You provided a source earlier in thread thread that misquoted and cherrypicked a Wall Street Journal article. I followed your source to the actual WSJ article which is what you see in the quoted text above.

You know, it's hard for us to really know what's going on between heads of state

I still maintain that us and uk do not want Ukraine to negotiate for peace. It seems their goal is to weaken Russia.

Someone said, Russia is our enemy.

Why?

So their version of democracy is not anywhere near what it should be.
So what? Why do we have to insist that other countries are democratic? They will be when they are ready.

Certainly Saudi Arabia is not, not many other countries. Do we invade them all?

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[MultiVerse]

Russia is our enemy because they are an autocracy in control of the world’s largest nuclear arsenal and they are at war against us. Contrary even to Soviet norms, Russia today is trying to use it's nuclear weapons for compellence, not deterrence.

This is already Russia's third invasion of Ukraine. They won’t stop at Ukraine unless Ukraine stops them. This is already a total war, but we are still in autumn 1941. It is suicide not to defend ourselves. Doing business with autocrats bolsters autocracy, not democracy.

[Bunion 2020]

You know, it's hard for us to really know what's going on between heads of state

I still maintain that us and uk do not want Ukraine to negotiate for peace. It seems their goal is to weaken Russia.

Someone said, Russia is our enemy.

Why?

So their version of democracy is not anywhere near what it should be.
So what? Why do we have to insist that other countries are democratic? They will be when they are ready.

Certainly Saudi Arabia is not, not many other countries. Do we invade them all?

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

Please put down the shovel and stop digging. The US and UK and most of the rest of the world can only stop providing aid to UKR as a way to force them to negotiate. Ultimately it is up to the UKR and Russia to either reach a deal or not. And for the millionth time, who invaded whom?

[summit]

[neufox47]

You know, it's hard for us to really know what's going on between heads of state

I still maintain that us and uk do not want Ukraine to negotiate for peace. It seems their goal is to weaken Russia.

Someone said, Russia is our enemy.

Why?

So their version of democracy is not anywhere near what it should be.
So what? Why do we have to insist that other countries are democratic? They will be when they are ready.

Certainly Saudi Arabia is not, not many other countries. Do we invade them all?

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

Really? That is your response to it being pointed out that you read, believed and passed on bullshit? “Despite my reasoning being proven wrong I maintain my position.”

News flash, despite what nonsense you read and believe Putin invaded Ukraine. No one has invaded Russia.

[highangle]

When did we invade Russia?

[cat in january]

1918

[Toadman]

When did we invade Russia?

When did a certain segment of America's population become pro Putin/Russian authoritarian supporters?

[summit]

When did we invade Russia?

Very briefly from late 1918 until early 1920 to protect US interests from the Bolshevik revolutionaries during the civil war. We had 2 token expeditionary forces totaling about 10K combined. They didn't do very much except sit around Archangelsk and Vladivostok, then left.

[Toadman]

Very briefly from late 1918 until early 1920 to protect US interests from the Bolshevik revolutionaries during the civil war. We had 2 token expeditionary forces totaling about 10K combined. They didn't do very much except sit around Archangelsk and Vladivostok, then left.

So it was less an invasion and more so a special operation.

[abraham]

So it was less an invasion and more so a special operation.

There's an amusing series of podcast episodes about it here https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000553129968

[dunfree]

Very briefly from late 1918 until early 1920 to protect US interests from the Bolshevik revolutionaries during the civil war. We had 2 token expeditionary forces totaling about 10K combined. They didn't do very much except sit around Archangelsk and Vladivostok, then left.

there’s really wild, crazy history around the Russian Civil War. US intervention, UK intervention, the Czech legion, and for totally batshit “the bloody white Baron” Roman von ungern-sternberg

[CarlMega]

Someone said, Russia is our enemy.

Why?

Have you considered going and fucking yourself?