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Thread: Ukraine
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11-18-2022, 09:00 AM #11076
Sorry....
It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.
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11-18-2022, 09:09 AM #11077
There was a time when people put the greater good over their individual needs, wants and desires. Clearly that time has past so yeah CE, Fuck Ukraine and the people, they deserve whatever happens to them, right?
I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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11-18-2022, 09:53 AM #11078
Ukraine is probably the most important place in the world in terms of world peace and American security. Ukrainians are making peace more likely in the future:
- By resisting Russia, Ukraine makes a Chinese invasion of Taiwan less likely
- And also reduces the possibility of successful autocratic aggression elsewhere
- They are also making more war in Europe less likely
- And denying massively increased Russian control of major petroleum, grain, and other key world commodities
- Ukrainian's self-defense also makes nuclear blackmail less effective and therefor reduces the risk of major nuclear war in the future
- Ukraine is weakening Russia's ability to act as chaos agent in its desire to undue the peaceful liberal world order
For a small percentage of America's defense budget and without putting American troops in danger, Ukrainians are helping keep America and the rest of the democratic free world safe. There is no other policy instrument, let alone at such a small cost, capable of checking Russian & Chinese aggression.
We should not only be thankful but also slightly embarrassed that they are doing so much for us and we are doing so little for them. If people like Cono channeling Marjorie Taylor Greene are allowed to reverse Ukraine's efforts, it will come at a cost of a less safe & secure America and greater risk of nuclear war in the future.
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11-18-2022, 09:58 AM #11079
By what about the father/daughter winter social???
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11-18-2022, 10:26 AM #11080
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11-18-2022, 10:50 AM #11081
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11-18-2022, 10:56 AM #11082click here
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I imagine some of us know someone like that, and hope we can connect with them. It's hard to believe someone gets stuck in their lizard brain and allows fear to block reasoning. Also there's remote hope they are reasonable thinking people, and have an interesting line of reasoning we haven't considered.
Maybe we're not all reasonable thinking people. Maybe humans are barely smart enough to reason at all. Perhaps some of us can reason, and some can not. Or we reason some of the time but not all the time. And then there's emotion that often blocks reason, though given a conversation over several days, I'd think an emotion would likely wane long enough for reason to return.
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11-18-2022, 12:02 PM #11083
But it wasn’t me and KQ, there’s the rub
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11-18-2022, 12:10 PM #11084
Momma say the reason Republicans is so mean is 'cause they got all them teef and no dentiss! That, an a generation of goddamned Talk Radio buried in their Boomer brains...
You can't have ideology without the id, and Manafort Devine & Bannon taught the world how to unlock 30 years of Talk Radio programming...for Duganism and the overthrow of America.
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11-18-2022, 12:23 PM #11085
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11-18-2022, 01:37 PM #11086
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11-18-2022, 02:15 PM #11087man of ice
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Oh, sweet jesus, no. That's our problem, hoping we can reach them and reform them. It's a fool's errand. You're not gonna reach them. We have to understand that and move from there and not get distracted trying to be the good people we are, they are not gonna change.
It took me a really long time to reach this conclusion, because I also would rather reason with them. But it's not gonna work, so fuck 'em. And even if everytting else fails, demographics will eventually save the day.
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11-18-2022, 02:20 PM #11088
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11-18-2022, 04:08 PM #11089click here
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So, do these people just not reach full development? They never learn to reason? I've heard one complain that "I always have an explanation." Whereas my complaint would be that they rarely seem to have one, and it's very shallow when they do. E.g. in the Ukraine case, they might say we shouldn't support Ukraine. Why? War is bad. The end. Or maybe they spout some "team Putin propaganda," but can't back it. Whereas I look at the teams, the history, the surrounding environment, read the propaganda, and come to my own conclusion, considering that many of the inputs are uncertain. And I'm willing to reevaluate my conclusion when there's new evidence or new reasoning.
If you're correct and they're just dumb, shouldn't we try to lead them to better positions?
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11-18-2022, 04:41 PM #11090
It seems like you might think humans use intelligence for some useful purpose besides trying to impress and manipulate each other. This understanding is not as common as one might hope.
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11-18-2022, 05:20 PM #11091man of ice
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11-18-2022, 05:25 PM #11092Rod9301
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I have to say that i view the west support of 'Ukraine as racist.
Because there was no support for iraq, Syria, South Yemen, etc and a lot of people died there. But they were brown.
So maybe the motivation was different, maybe it's oil, so i could be wrong.
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11-18-2022, 05:28 PM #11093
Ya think?
I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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11-18-2022, 05:28 PM #11094Rod9301
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And my post is not to excuse the Russian invasion.
It's to start a discussion on why we are supporting Ukraine and not yemen, where Saudis killed a reported 400,000 people.
Are they not just as important?
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11-18-2022, 05:29 PM #11095Rod9301
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11-18-2022, 05:42 PM #11096
Because Russia is our enemy and SA are (supposedly) our friends?
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11-18-2022, 05:44 PM #11097click here
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I do think we ought to better ourselves, in ways that make things better for everyone.
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11-18-2022, 05:57 PM #11098click here
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The overriding concept may be that SA is interfering in Yemen, whereas Russia invaded and annexed Ukraine. That doesn't make King Bonesaw an angel. I agree there was lots of support for killing Iraqis, and that was wrong. American imperialism is another imperialism we ought to restrain, even if it doesn't annex (any more).
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11-18-2022, 05:59 PM #11099Rod9301
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11-18-2022, 06:02 PM #11100
Fuck off Rod. What's happening in Yemen is both a tragedy and a civil war with each respective faction backed by Saudi Arabia and Iran. To oppose Saudi Arabia is to support Iran. What's more, the Iranian backed Houthi rebels recently broke yet another truce with the Yemeni government, not the other way around. The internationally recognized Yemeni government and the Saudi-led coalition both complied with the truce.
The majority of Yemenis fear the Houthis’ because they reject power sharing, are totally aligned with Iran, and because of their even more radical ideological and theological beliefs.
In Yemen the main obstacles to peace are ones only Yemenis can resolve. Whereas in Ukraine the main obstacle to peace is Russia.
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