Ukraine

[leroy jenkins]

I saw a post on this line of thought. It goes something like this; a robber comes into your home, rapes your wife and daughter and then tortures them and kills them in front of you. The robber then goes through your has wrecking things. Beats you up and then steals your belongings. Your neighbors then say that you should come to some agreement to let the robber/rapist/murderer stay and use your house as he wishes, along with your car. No punishment for the invader. It's actually you that gets punished. You bury your wife and daughter in the backyard, and then go to work and then hand over a portion of your salary to keep the invader from doing any more damage. Then your new house guests goes next door and does the same thing to your neighbor...

Horrible analogy. Somone comes into your house poses a threat to you there is no practical reason, other than the moral weight of the act, to not shoot them. You'll fill out some paperwork, have to clean up your house a bit, maybe need to spend money on a lawyer, and that's about it.

Your attacker will not survive, having nuclear weapons, to be pushed further into an alliance with China, and the global economy is not hopelessly tied to your attacker's economy. If you pull the trigger on a home intruder, if all legal requirements are fulfilled to do so, your problem has pretty much just disappeared, not become more complicated.

I'm not advocating appeasement, just saying the analogy sucks. There aren't any analogies for this situation. Its about the most complicated situation the world has ever seen, if associated problems that are tied into it are considered.

[highangle]

Sounds like they should be pressuring Putin to end the war so they can try and get those things back.

And how are the Russian ppl to do that?
At the ballot box?
Mass demonstrations?
In Russian courts?
Write prosy letters to the editor?

[leroy jenkins]

Well there is widespread civil disobedience. Ya know, just get arrested in such massive numbers the system can't handle them and the cops have to let people go or pressure upwards to change policy...


But considering how effectively the russian system just disappears people who are inconvenient to putin, I'm sure they'd just end up in a camp somewhere anyways.

[J. Barron DeJong]

And how are the Russian ppl to do that?
At the ballot box?
Mass demonstrations?
In Russian courts?
Write prosy letters to the editor?

Yeah, I’m being flippant. But there’s some history of Russians overthrowing their rulers, right?

[dunfree]

Yeah, I’m being flippant. But there’s some history of Russians overthrowing their rulers, right?

theres a longer history of a cabal killing the ruler

[frorider]

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/05...ppy-with-putin

[bennymac]

You’d think once Kissinger realized how stupid he was to be on the Theranos board and also be heavily invested (and he convinced others to pour in money) he’d stop commenting on anything publicly.

[summit]

You’d think once Kissinger realized how stupid he was to be on the Theranos board and also be heavily invested (and he convinced others to pour in money) he’d stop commenting on anything publicly.

That celebrated enemy of the state has a record of success before Theranos! That is why he poked his head out of the grave to run his corpse-like tongue.

Let's review what the man is responsible for:
Vietnam (oh let us count the ways)
Implementing the concept of détente with Communist China
Pakistan's whole shitty existence
Iran falling to fundamentalists
A literal litany of super fucked, broke dicked "diplomacy" that is still killing thousands today everywhere from Kansas to Timbukfuckingtu.

How can we not listen to his sage advice? Look at the results!!! STRONG BUY (an airline ticket for him to Hanoi)

[highangle]

Well there is widespread civil disobedience. Ya know, just get arrested in such massive numbers the system can't handle them and the cops have to let people go or pressure upwards to change policy...

But considering how effectively the russian system just disappears people who are inconvenient to putin, I'm sure they'd just end up in a camp somewhere anyways.

So their options are
1. Execution
2. Gulag
3. Shut up and make the best of it

[Toadman]

This is the biggest lie of the Biden Administration now, and media outlets are just starting to report and unravel the cognitive dissonance of the Administration saying one thing, but doing another via their actions.

They (The Biden Admin) don't want peace in Ukraine (like they are trying to sell in the media and to the American People), they want Putin OUT by any means necessary.

Based on the foreign policy savviness of this Admin, we will be officially in WW3 by the end of the year, or when the food crisis happens. Whichever comes first.

Two stars quietly added to the CIA wall yesterday. I wonder where these brave US citizens met their deaths...

Um, no. This was posted by some dude from Ukraine. He was probably tired of all the Putin/Russian apologists and supporters. It's like all the Republican pro Putin supporters in Congress. You probably know them well; MTG, Boebert, Cawthorn, Gohmert, Mo Brooks, Gaetz. It's akin to victim blaming. It's all everyone else's fault that Putin decided to invade Ukraine all on bullshit, false premises. So, the victim needs to make concessions. Knowing that after they made those concessions, the perpetrator of the crimes is just going to do it again.

[Toadman]

Future mine detecting dogs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/com...n_and_stinger/

[dunfree]

The details of this are wild. Court martialEd & retired 63 year old Russian Major General dies flying ground attack jet as Wagner mercenary
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...sion-dd9d95lqs

[J. Barron DeJong]

The details of this are wild. Court martialEd & retired 63 year old Russian Major General dies flying ground attack jet as Wagner mercenary
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...sion-dd9d95lqs

Had no clue mercenaries would be flying jets. Figured they were just additional boots on the ground.

[Casey E]

Had no clue mercenaries would be flying jets. Figured they were just additional boots on the ground.

More scraping-the-bottom-of-the-barrel evidence. That asshole just wanted to go out doing what he loved,
and got the job.

[highangle]

More scraping-the-bottom-of-the-barrel evidence. That asshole just wanted to go out doing what he loved,
and got the job.

A kamakaznitsky?

[dunfree]

More scraping-the-bottom-of-the-barrel evidence. That asshole just wanted to go out doing what he loved,
and got the job.

yeah, I can totally see him wanting the job. But why’d they want him - how many of the 9 years out of the service had he been flying?And who’s plane was he flying? And how many are like him? And how many of the unclaimed bodies are like him? Just bizarre, but Wagner is like that.

[MultiVerse]

Perhaps related, Russia's Duma abolished the age limit for contract soldiers in the armed forces, allowing men over 40 (and under 18) to serve. Back-of-the-envelope calculations also suggest Russia may have lost up to 30% of its total usable armor.

A takeaway at odds with the idea Ukraine must make territorial concessions for peace, in reality means Russia restarts the war as soon as it rebuilds.

[LongShortLong]

When it comes to potential Putin concessions, we should start with what he deserves. He's consistently shown himself to be an irresponsible actor, invading one sovereign country after the next. If he were a neighbor, we'd have him arrested and sent to jail. So, he deserves nothing.

Allowing Putin anything is a concession. Allowing retreat is a concession. Allowing control of Russia is a concession. The only reason to allow any concession is our unwillingness to force justice. Before the 2014 invasion, Putin already controlled all of Russia and had a longterm lease on the Crimean naval base. There was and is no justification for hostilities.

And Russia being a historical great power is also a heap of bullshit. Many (most?) European nations are historical great powers. There is no good reason to restore any of them. Though if the argument is to counter-balance some other great nation, any of them would do. Why pick Russia? Why not France or Turkey? Or Portugal or Hungary? This is a bad argument.

[ex-powderbroker]

Kyiv Independent response to calls for appeasement:

https://kyivindependent.com/opinion/...itorial-board/

[TahoeJ]

Seriously, fuck the NYT! So sad what has happened to that paper over the past 25 years.

Money quote right here: "Because here’s the thing. Ukrainian society will never agree to any concessions. Those who don’t understand this simple fact don’t understand Ukraine at all, and perhaps shouldn’t share their uneducated speculations in one of the world’s leading media publications."

[J. Barron DeJong]

Twitter thread on Russian gains in Donbas:
https://twitter.com/kofmanmichael/st...OprV82869RQayQ

Summation:

[Core Shot]

[MultiVerse]

Twitter thread on Russian gains in Donbas:
https://twitter.com/kofmanmichael/st...OprV82869RQayQ

He also mentions how the Russian military has become more effective, and to an extent has adapted, which is to be expected after all the initial incompetence. The main Russian tactic in the east however is simply annihilating cities and towns with artillery and then advancing through the ruble:

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1529548979846922242

Russian TOS-1A thermobaric MLRS and artillery strikes on Ukrainian positions:

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1529545082789154826

[Toadman]

It's truly amazing how many artillery and missiles and bombs Russia has expended on Ukraine. There must be multiple factories working 24/7 3 shifts/day mfg. artillery rounds, small arms ammo, bombs and missiles. Seems like it will be a very long and uphill battle for Ukraine to absorb that kind of punishment and be able to dish it out too.

[rod9301]

EU is debating wether to stop importing Russian oil and gas

Seeing that Russian oil and gas revenues are already at 50 other of the total planned for 2022, this is an incredible stupid move.

It will send Europe's costs higher, and increase Russia's revenues.

Other sanctions probably work.

But i wonder how much longer European population will put up with the higher cost of heating. The natural gas prices are 3 times higher there then in the us.
And the US is sending LNG to Europe, increasing the heating cost to American consumers. Natural gas prices are a lot higher than a year ago. I hope this will not cause voters to shift republican this fall.

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