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Thread: Ukraine
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05-13-2022, 02:32 PM #7676
With friends like MBS and Erdogan, who needs enemies?
j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi
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05-13-2022, 02:50 PM #7677Registered User
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Is the goal here to end this invasion or drive Putin from power? Your post above seems to indicate the latter.
It might sound simple in your head, but these are two different goals.
These competing goals have different strategies, allies, enemies, and of course consequences.
There are a few scenarios (think pipedream) where we can accomplish both, but then the likelihood of a hot war and potential nuclear exchange goes up exponentially, and no rational mind (or the American populace) wants that.
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05-13-2022, 02:56 PM #7678
As previously discussed the goal WRT to Russia's unprovoked invasion is peace on Ukraine's terms.
Beyond the war itself the West's long term strategic goal should be for a democratic resurgence in Russia. Sanctions should remain in place until that happens. The West should work to cease all Russian petroleum imports because energy dependence on Russia is suicide.
Russia is the wolf at the door. Russia is our enemy. The Ukrainian people are showing us what too many of us have forgotten, that democracy is worth fighting for. The Russians have nukes, tanks, guided missiles, and all sorts of other nasty stuff. We should not be in the business of fighting Putin’s propaganda war for him while he fights a real war against democracy in Ukraine.
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05-13-2022, 03:11 PM #7679
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05-13-2022, 03:33 PM #7680
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05-13-2022, 04:01 PM #7681Rod9301
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Not true , it was Biden who refused to meet with Putin, and on the eve of the invasion, Putin said, time for talks is over.
It's a shame that the us is not taking a protective stance in pushing for negotiations
It sure seems that there's no interest on our part in peace.
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05-13-2022, 04:03 PM #7682Rod9301
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05-13-2022, 04:04 PM #7683
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05-13-2022, 04:05 PM #7684Rod9301
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05-13-2022, 04:09 PM #7685
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05-13-2022, 04:12 PM #7686
It is true according to your source materiel. Biden did agree to meet with Putin. You provided a source earlier in thread thread that misquoted and cherrypicked a Wall Street Journal article. I followed your source to the actual WSJ article which is what you see in the quoted text above. According to your source it was Putin not Biden who refused diplomacy.
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05-13-2022, 04:15 PM #7687
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05-13-2022, 04:20 PM #7688Rod9301
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You know, it's hard for us to really know what's going on between heads of state
I still maintain that us and uk do not want Ukraine to negotiate for peace. It seems their goal is to weaken Russia.
Someone said, Russia is our enemy.
Why?
So their version of democracy is not anywhere near what it should be.
So what? Why do we have to insist that other countries are democratic? They will be when they are ready.
Certainly Saudi Arabia is not, not many other countries. Do we invade them all?
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05-13-2022, 04:31 PM #7689
Russia is our enemy because they are an autocracy in control of the world’s largest nuclear arsenal and they are at war against us. Contrary even to Soviet norms, Russia today is trying to use it's nuclear weapons for compellence, not deterrence.
This is already Russia's third invasion of Ukraine. They won’t stop at Ukraine unless Ukraine stops them. This is already a total war, but we are still in autumn 1941. It is suicide not to defend ourselves. Doing business with autocrats bolsters autocracy, not democracy.Last edited by MultiVerse; 05-13-2022 at 04:52 PM.
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05-13-2022, 04:38 PM #7690
Please put down the shovel and stop digging. The US and UK and most of the rest of the world can only stop providing aid to UKR as a way to force them to negotiate. Ultimately it is up to the UKR and Russia to either reach a deal or not. And for the millionth time, who invaded whom?
I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.
"Happiest years of my life were earning < $8.00 and hour, collecting unemployment every spring and fall, no car, no debt and no responsibilities. 1984-1990 Park City UT"
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05-13-2022, 04:38 PM #7691Originally Posted by blurred
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05-13-2022, 04:42 PM #7692
Really? That is your response to it being pointed out that you read, believed and passed on bullshit? “Despite my reasoning being proven wrong I maintain my position.”
News flash, despite what nonsense you read and believe Putin invaded Ukraine. No one has invaded Russia.
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05-13-2022, 04:44 PM #7693
When did we invade Russia?
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05-13-2022, 04:59 PM #7694
1918
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05-13-2022, 05:01 PM #7695
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05-13-2022, 05:05 PM #7696
Very briefly from late 1918 until early 1920 to protect US interests from the Bolshevik revolutionaries during the civil war. We had 2 token expeditionary forces totaling about 10K combined. They didn't do very much except sit around Archangelsk and Vladivostok, then left.
Originally Posted by blurred
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05-13-2022, 05:10 PM #7697
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05-13-2022, 05:15 PM #7698
There's an amusing series of podcast episodes about it here https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000553129968
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05-13-2022, 05:20 PM #7699
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05-13-2022, 05:39 PM #7700
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