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Thread: Ukraine
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06-28-2022, 11:24 PM #8276
This is just painfully stupid reasoning. I’m sure Russia will stop killing and raping Ukrainians as soon as they surrender.
Ukrainians also are overwhelmingly against surrendering to Russia. Yet you know better than them? Who the fuck are you Rod? Just the guy who conveniently has invested directly in Russian companies, is against all sanctions on Russia and against providing aid to Ukraine.
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06-29-2022, 02:03 AM #8277
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06-29-2022, 06:54 AM #8278
Also Russia cannot be trusted to actually keep a peace treaty. Any peace treaty that moves the lines just makes the start of the next Russian invasion. They need to take a negative value from this whole business for there to be ANYTHING positive out of this that will prevent it from happening again.
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06-29-2022, 07:17 AM #8279Aim for the chopping block. If you aim for the wood, you will have nothing. Aim past the wood, aim through the wood.
http://tim-kirchoff.pixels.com/
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06-29-2022, 11:31 AM #8280click here
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I'm all for peace and fewer people dying. 100%. War sucks.
The best path I see involves killing a bunch of militant Russians in Ukraine. Now if the Russians would go back to Russia... I foresee both peace and fewer people dying. Until then I maximally support Ukraine's effort to send said Russians home by military means. Cargo 200. If somebody has a better method to encourage militaristic despots to change, I'm open to it. We already tried peaceful development, trade, and diplomacy. Putin and the Russians decided to have war instead. I'm an unwilling participant.
As for Ukrainian concessions, I'm willing to consider letting Russia keep Moscow and Putin. Though it may be wiser not to. Putin done fucked up, and if possible it's best for the world to remove Putin and Putinism. Criminals should do their time.
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06-29-2022, 12:47 PM #8281
Peace through strength. That's what Ukraine is working to achieve. More and more help from NATO and they should get there.
"We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch
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06-29-2022, 01:30 PM #8282
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06-30-2022, 09:35 AM #8283
There is no argument over the choice between peace and war, but there is only one guaranteed way you can have peace–and you can have it in the next second–surrender.
Admittedly there is a risk in any course we follow other than this, but every lesson in history tells us that the greater risk lies in appeasement, and it gives no choice between peace and war, only between fight and surrender. Who believes that life is so dear and peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery. If nothing in life is worth dying for, when did this begin–just in the face of this enemy? The martyrs of history were not fools, and neither are the Ukrainians.Originally Posted by blurred
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06-30-2022, 09:49 AM #8284
Moral calculus of war is complicated. There’s a reason that hardcore Libertarianism and Pacifism are appealing concepts to a 20 yr old college student but typically get rejected or develop shades of grey as one ages.
Most of us view a nation’s right of self-determination as not only a basic tenet of intl law, but an aggregated example of basic human rights. In the Ukraine case it seems pretty fucking clear.Know of a pair of Fischer Ranger 107Ti 189s (new or used) for sale? PM me.
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06-30-2022, 09:52 AM #8285Registered User
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Damn fine posts, gentlemen.
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06-30-2022, 09:59 AM #8286
Here’s some news for Benny the dumb. Theatre was hit by two missiles. Hundreds killed.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...ee579225c75fe8
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
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06-30-2022, 12:32 PM #8287
Shopping mall hit the other day too. Gotta get those Nazi while they are out buying new BVDs
Terrifying new video captures moment Russian AS-4 missile slams into Ukrainian mall killing 18, debunking Kremlin claims that a blaze accidentally spread from a 'weapons store' targeted nearby“When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis
Kindness is a bridge between all people
Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism
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06-30-2022, 01:15 PM #8288
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06-30-2022, 01:27 PM #8289“When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis
Kindness is a bridge between all people
Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism
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06-30-2022, 01:36 PM #8290
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06-30-2022, 01:38 PM #8291
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06-30-2022, 01:51 PM #8292
If the 3.1mile circular error probability number is correct (50% of launches would hit within 3.1 miles of the target) for a KH-22 in land attack mode, missing is pretty much a given.
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06-30-2022, 01:57 PM #8293
Honest to dog I cannot believe anyone is arguing about where missles are hitting Ukraine. Missles shouldn't be hitting Ukraine period.
Sounds like people are normalizing this whole thing. Making excuses for what Russia is doing.“When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis
Kindness is a bridge between all people
Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism
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06-30-2022, 02:00 PM #8294
the choice to fire an old shitty inaccurate missile at a target anywhere within miles of civilians means you are ok with the chance of killing civilians. Lots of them. Which Russia is. It’s not an accident or a mistake
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06-30-2022, 02:15 PM #8295
I read somewhere, maybe it was the Ukraine MOD site, that Russia is firing an estimated 60k shells a day. I'm guessing when they say shells, they are talking artillery. I just still can't wrap my head around that volume of artillery being fired, and how Ukraine forces can absorb those blows and continue to fight back.
I guess Russia is good at mfg. artillery shells, and vodka."We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch
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06-30-2022, 02:29 PM #8296
My intention is not to ‘normalize’ anything. Any deaths happening in UKR are 100% on RU and Putin. They started this by choice and, they could end it immediately if they wanted to.
I just try to keep myself grounded in the facts, and try to avoid getting myself worked up on the worst interpretations of the horrors we’re witnessing. (Maybe a coping mechanism more than anything….)
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06-30-2022, 02:59 PM #8297“When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis
Kindness is a bridge between all people
Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism
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06-30-2022, 03:08 PM #8298
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06-30-2022, 03:10 PM #8299
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06-30-2022, 03:23 PM #8300
Evidently they're burning through ammo stored in Belarusian depots. Whether or not that's to keep Russian supplies or because they've used them isn't clear. Missiles shouldn't be hitting Ukraine at all. I agree completely.
But for anyone who's paid any attention at all over the last decade it is clear that Russia has no problem directly targeting civilians. Including bombing civilians, waiting for responders, then bombing the responders and survivors.
I think it's worth noting whether or not the bombing of a mall was deliberate, like the rockets fired at the train stations or that theater. Or whether it was due to putting equipment to use that isn't fit for purpose. Where they're basically tossing explosives up without any care where they come down, whether it's a military target, industrial site, or just civilians.
Dunfree's added information here is useful.
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