Ukraine

[Casey E]

NATO made me torture, rape, rob and murder civilians cuz cuz cuz…. they’s NAZIS!

Rabbit holes are the new fox holes.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The point is, you’re all liars, and think you’re entitled to make up whatever you want to serve your narrative. Without proof, and this was before you shifted gears and just called everyone who asked for facts a “Russian apologists”

You will never have the full support of this country doing that.

Okay, I’m going to be candid here, you should really step back and do some self reflection. You’re posts reflect a disconnect from reality. It’s unhealthy to be this worked up about a discussion of this very serious topic on a ski forum. Maybe take a break, spend some time with family. Take some of that time to read about different aspects and POVs on this topic. We’re not all rooting for WW3 and the end of the world as we know it. We do however have varying degrees of understanding of history and how a scenario like what’s happening in Ukraine isn’t good for the world in regards to Russian aggression.

When you think everyone is wrong, lying and aligned against you, you’re most likely the problem. It’s called paranoid delusions. People do sling shit here when people post obviously ignorant and/or stupid content. It’s part of the deal.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[summit]

when you try to argue even the most obvious, physical, facts and lose, you just make up the “Putin apologist” lie.

NATO and Russia have ALWAYS been touching since the creation of NATO.

NATO isn't moving East. Russian aggression has caused nation states to VOLUNTARILY join NATO out of fear of what Russia has done to smaller countries.

These countries want to be protected from Russia.

Russia is only threatened by their inability to invade and bully their small neighbors.

[californiagrown]

"But Ukraine is not a NATO country!" Shouts the guy that thinks NATO expansion justified invading....a non-NATO country.

Brain's so smooth Chilean scientists used it to calibrate their instruments.

I believe the reasons Russia cites for the invasion are (correct me if there are more):

1) unchecked NATO expansion along Russian borders presented existential threat to russia... and Ukraine actively courting NATO membership along with NATO seemingly moving towards extending an invitation was too much for Russia to bear.

2) Nazis. Literal, nazis.

3) Large regions of Ukraine held populations of ethnic russians who wanted to break away and rejoin russia, but the Ukrainian government (nazis) were brutally suppressing them. So in a roundabout way russia is really just freeing their own citizens from foreign aggression/suppression.

[summit]

Sure that is a reasonable summary of the Russian public messaging to sell the war

We know that Putin and his cronies were more interested in the power and money that comes from the economics of having Ukraine locked into their sphere and the power and money of having another 36 million people under their control rather than as an independent nation state free to associate and conduct business etc.

There was also the political indictment against the Russian political system of having yet another neighbor choose the West instead of the neo-USSR bloc that Putin dreams of reforming.

[schuss]

Yep, and if you're on the up and up, a defensive pact will never be "threatening" as it only comes into play when you invade someone.

[MultiVerse]

The reason why cono is once again bringing up long since debunked Putin talking points is because Mr. "art of the deal" is campaigning on Putin's "NovoRussia" ambitions by promising to end the war in "24 hours," while MAGA sheep eat it all up.

The reason why Putin invaded Ukraine is simple: he thought would get away with it. "By showing weakness we provoked Vladimir Putin... I wasn't surprised by the Europeans... because they are dependent on Russian energy. There is nothing that provokes Putin more than weakness."

[bennymac]

This is ok to some mags because Russia had no choice but to invade another country - they were forced by the actions of the west. Poor Putin - what else could he do?

[dunfree]

I believe the reasons Russia cites for the invasion are (correct me if there are more):

1) unchecked NATO expansion along Russian borders presented existential threat to russia... and Ukraine actively courting NATO membership along with NATO seemingly moving towards extending an invitation was too much for Russia to bear.

2) Nazis. Literal, nazis.

3) Large regions of Ukraine held populations of ethnic russians who wanted to break away and rejoin russia, but the Ukrainian government (nazis) were brutally suppressing them. So in a roundabout way russia is really just freeing their own citizens from foreign aggression/suppression.

Putin has stated that
a) Ukraine never had “real statehood”, and doesn’t need to exist
b) he’s made clear he views Ukrainians as below Russians
It’s clear from the beginning that the goals have been to steal as much as Russia can from Ukraine, and destroy everything else. It’s what Russia did in the Donbas. Pretending it’s about NATO expansion or other such is silly bullshit. He did it because he thought he could


Also silly bullshit is pretending Russia is self sufficient. If they actually were they’d be pumping out all their wunderwaffe, asap. But they can’t. Their defense industry mostpy limps along like it’s done for decades, churning out dumb munitions and refurbing old machines, while making a few bespoke “top of the line” stuff in minimal numbers. This is very unlike the PRC who have committed to production en masse - they’ve made over 200 of their J-20 nominally 5th generation fighter since first flight in 2011, Russia has made not even two dozen su-57 since its first flight in 2010. The aircraft Russia produce en masse- the su-34 & 35/mig-29 &35 date from Soviet times.

[mcphee]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...di-trade-event
What’s stopping our allies (lol. Lmao) from selling Russian defense manufacturers all of the hardware we give our friends (lol. Lmao even)?

Might be a reverse engineering heyday in Russia coming soon.

[californiagrown]

Putin has stated that
a) Ukraine never had “real statehood”, and doesn’t need to exist
b) he’s made clear he views Ukrainians as below Russians
It’s clear from the beginning that the goals have been to steal as much as Russia can from Ukraine, and destroy everything else. It’s what Russia did in the Donbas. Pretending it’s about NATO expansion or other such is silly bullshit. He did it because he thought he could


Also silly bullshit is pretending Russia is self sufficient. If they actually were they’d be pumping out all their wunderwaffe, asap. But they can’t. Their defense industry mostpy limps along like it’s done for decades, churning out dumb munitions and refurbing old machines, while making a few bespoke “top of the line” stuff in minimal numbers. This is very unlike the PRC who have committed to production en masse - they’ve made over 200 of their J-20 nominally 5th generation fighter since first flight in 2011, Russia has made not even two dozen su-57 since its first flight in 2010. The aircraft Russia produce en masse- the su-34 & 35/mig-29 &35 date from Soviet times.

What do you think is the main reason most russians support the war? fightin nazis? Returning russia to its former glory by returning Ukraine to the motherland? What is the most effective piece of propoganda that keeps the general public supporting the war effort?

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-po...20early%202023.

[californiagrown]

Putin has stated that
a) Ukraine never had “real statehood”, and doesn’t need to exist
b) he’s made clear he views Ukrainians as below Russians
It’s clear from the beginning that the goals have been to steal as much as Russia can from Ukraine, and destroy everything else. It’s what Russia did in the Donbas. Pretending it’s about NATO expansion or other such is silly bullshit. He did it because he thought he could


Also silly bullshit is pretending Russia is self sufficient. If they actually were they’d be pumping out all their wunderwaffe, asap. But they can’t. Their defense industry mostpy limps along like it’s done for decades, churning out dumb munitions and refurbing old machines, while making a few bespoke “top of the line” stuff in minimal numbers. This is very unlike the PRC who have committed to production en masse - they’ve made over 200 of their J-20 nominally 5th generation fighter since first flight in 2011, Russia has made not even two dozen su-57 since its first flight in 2010. The aircraft Russia produce en masse- the su-34 & 35/mig-29 &35 date from Soviet times.

What do you think is the main reason most russians support the war? fightin nazis? Returning russia to its former glory by returning Ukraine to the motherland? What is the most effective piece of propoganda that keeps the general public supporting the war effort? Fighting off NATO aggression?

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-po...20early%202023.

[ex-powderbroker]

History will just keep repeating itself unless Russia learns a lesson.

https://www.politico.eu/article/a-nightmare-foretold/

1994, 2015, 2022...

[subtle plague]

Im not dunfree but: I think most don't Actually care. As long as only backward rural people and non ethnic Russians are affected and the inconvienience oder the sanctions are not that severe because of the Black market.


And the Russian soul has always endured hardships if they had some sort of a dream of a mighty empire, which putin gives them by pretending they could Actually attack and conquer a country.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Im not dunfree but: I think most don't Actually care. As long as only backward rural people and non ethnic Russians are affected and the inconvienience oder the sanctions are not that severe because of the Black market.


And the Russian soul has always endured hardships if they had some sort of a dream of a mighty empire, which putin gives them by pretending they could Actually attack and conquer a country.

They may be starting to care:



https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/st...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

[Meconium]

Ukraine's military intelligence reported on May 26 that Russian occupying forces at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant were preparing a large-scale provocation "in the next few hours."

"To achieve this, a strike will be carried out directly on the territory of the plant. Afterward, an announcement will be made about a catastrophic release of radioactive substances. Ukraine will naturally be blamed for the incident," the statement read.

According to military intelligence, Russian forces deliberately disrupted the scheduled staff rotation of the permanent monitoring mission of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) on May 26 "to conceal their (planned) actions as best as possible."

The purpose of this provocation is to "provoke the international community to conduct a detailed investigation during which all hostilities will be stopped," allowing Russian forces to regroup and hinder Ukraine's ability to carry out a successful counteroffensive.

IAEA Director General Rafael Mariano Grossi said in a statement on May 6 that the situation near the plant was "becoming increasingly unpredictable and potentially dangerous."

Russian forces have been in control of Europe's largest nuclear power plant since March 2022, using it as a military base for launching attacks on Ukrainian-controlled territory across the Dnipro River.

The Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is also currently operating with only a quarter of its usual staff, raising concerns regarding its maintenance.
https://kyivindependent.com/ukraines...nuclear-plant/

I don't know if any reporters argued for proof during the announcement but the Russians now know military intelligence has some info true or not.

[bennymac]

You guys dont get it

America/NATO/Ukraine are all 100% bad actors and you can’t trust anything they say or do - just believe the opposite of whatever they report

But Russia - you should trust them. You should trust them so much you should sit down with them, forget the war crimes, forget the illegal invasion, and just negotiate with them what parts of Ukraine they get to absorb as a reward for their behavior. They’d never do something like a false flag…and America has done false flags in the past so Russia is who we should trust. Checkmate.

[LongShortLong]

You guys dont get it

America/NATO/Ukraine are all 100% bad actors and you can’t trust anything they say or do - just believe the opposite of whatever they report

But Russia - you should trust them. You should trust them so much you should sit down with them, forget the war crimes, forget the illegal invasion, and just negotiate with them what parts of Ukraine they get to absorb as a reward for their behavior. They’d never do something like a false flag…and America has done false flags in the past so Russia is who we should trust. Checkmate.

Yep, start with Putin's essays posted at kremlin.ru. No need for NATO/NAFO lies. Go straight to the source. Putin doesn't say genocide, but any reasonable reader can match his aims and figure out what he means.

[Viva]

.....

[mcphee]

Gonna leave this nutshell here and hope Cono crams himself into it

[J. Barron DeJong]

Gonna leave this nutshell here and hope Cono crams himself into it

Please save that. I think you’ll be able to get a lot of mileage out of it.

[J. Barron DeJong]

https://twitter.com/kremlintrolls/st...sR_NcRK2VkCfkg

[summit]

That guy will get a free trip to gulag

[bennymac]

you mean he’s gonna have a heart attack and then fall off a balcony

[summit]

you mean he’s gonna have a heart attack and then fall off a balcony

Ah yes.... it's 2023, not 1953... small differences... now they call it "ispravitelnaya koloniya" (Corrective Labor Colony) not GULAG (Main Administration of Camps)

Small differences

(Cono loves these things)