Ukraine

[Danno]

[MultiVerse]

Thanks, I watched the 6 min version of that video. So why is the Kremlin allowing this level of truth in a major broadcast? First step in preparing public for a ‘revised’ strategy?

Yeah managing expectations is probably a big part of it. Even though Russia is controlled by an authoritarian regime it's not North Korea. The Kremlin still has to manage and respond to public opinion.

Counterintuitively repressive regimes can strengthen their control by allowing the appearance of dissenting opinions. From the Kremlin's perspective floating a trial balloon about the war not going according to plan allows it to detect danger based on public response. It helps the Kremlin craft a more effective message.

The second thing it does is ensure there's no unified anti-war public voice. If the Kremlin denies reality for too long its propaganda losses all effectiveness. Presenting an alternative point of view at a time when support for the war among the public is still high preemptively disorganizes and identifies opposition.

Most of all what the Kremlin doesn't want is negative information flowing horizontally between citizens. They don't want mass anti-war movements. They want the information to flow vertically so that even if individual Russians oppose the war they're not collectively blaming the regime en masse.

[J. Barron DeJong]

https://twitter.com/kama_kamilia/sta...ksengr2F6rVUog

[highangle]

Speaks for itself: https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFoota...tions_with_an/


https://odin.tradoc.army.mil/mediawi...enade_Launcher

[neufox47]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/com...tm_name=iossmf

“The ombudswoman's hotline for free psychological assistance receives reports of sexual crimes committed by the occupiers. In May 17 alone, the victims made 56 calls, including on the rape of children.

This was stated by the Verkhovna Rada Commissioner for Human Rights Lyudmila Denisova.

She noted that after the liberation from the occupiers of cities and villages of Kharkiv region, most calls to the psychological help line have been received from there during the last week.

According to Denisova, 10 people applied for sexual violence in one hour on May 17. Among them are 8 minors, including two 10-year-old boys.

The Commissioner spoke about several appeals: “Triplets are 9 years old, girls. Raped by rashists, have severe genital injuries. All this in front of her mother, she is in shock. The mother, in whose eyes her nine-month-old daughter was raped by candlelight, turned. A one-year-old boy was raped by two people and died. "

Denisova also said that two occupiers raped a two-year-old girl. She survived. Raped men aged 67 and 78 also applied.

"This is the genocide of the Ukrainian people with special cruelty! This is a violation not only of the norms of international humanitarian law, but also of its very essence, the morals of the civilized world , "the commissioner said.”

The crimes being reported are almost beyond belief.


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[AK47bp]

Fucking disgusting. I think I posted about that a couple weeks back and Benny was being an Putin apologist about it.


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[LeeLau]

Fucking disgusting. I think I posted about that a couple weeks back and Benny was being an Putin apologist about it.


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Bunny being someone who condones pedophilia may explain it

[rideit]

So, the writing is a little..,flowery, but this is an interesting read.

https://thedebrief.org/know-no-mercy...by-themselves/

[riser4]

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/...tail=emaildkre

I'm a leftist of sorts. Imperialism is bad. All kinds. Even the Russian kind. We did not cause the issue in Ukraine. Full stop.

We do however have choices on how we handle the situation. And, we definitely should not turn it into a proxy war, which it could easily become. If you think it was always a proxy war against Russia, fuck you. If anything, the Russians wanted it to be a proxy war against the west. It's a good thing they were so corrupt that the pro-Russian underground army was a complete fiction.

We should absolutely help the Ukrainians fuck the Russians, if they want our help.

And while I have some common ground with Naom Chomsky on some things, here is where we diverge. Fuck Putin. Fuck the systematic destruction of a country and it's people. Fuck George W Bush too. There, happy?

[summit]

And, we definitely should not turn it into a proxy war, which it could easily become. If you think it was always a proxy war against Russia, fuck you.

How on Earth is not a proxy war in addition to being a war for the preservation of a free and independent Ukraine?

If the Russians insist on being a belligerent force towards the free world, it is in the interest of NATO (and anyone Russia is a threat to) to have it be a proxy war with the superior alternative being a peace favorable to Ukraine. If that isn't clear, you haven't been paying attention to Russia for the last 20 years. They turned it on, they can turn it off.

If anything, the Russians wanted it to be a proxy war against the west.

That is an absolutely bonkers claim. Russia didn't want a proxy war, they wanted a quick capture of Ukraine, a regime change, guaranteed business dealings, and guarantee of Crimea all without any Western warfare whether economic or proxy.

If the Cold War taught the West and Russia anything, it never pays to fight a proxy, but it usually pays to have a proxy fight your true foe!

[ötzi]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[jono]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

...begins every clusterfuck of foreign policy, imperialist and isolationist alike.

[ötzi]

Things always get fucked up when people try to be clever.

[jono]

Word

[subtle plague]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

The friend of my friend is my enemy!
Sorry that I fucked up.

[highangle]

So, the writing is a little..,flowery, but this is an interesting read.

https://thedebrief.org/know-no-mercy...by-themselves/

The author buys right into their cover story. These fucking thugs are not upstanding Officer Friendlies defending law and order, they are, in their own words, a fucking Death Squad.
They were going to Kyiv with a list of names and addresses....

My grandpa fought [against the Nazis in WW2], and now I am here like a death squads member. -- LtCol Mikailovich

[jono]

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/...tail=emaildkre

I'm a leftist of sorts. Imperialism is bad. All kinds. Even the Russian kind. We did not cause the issue in Ukraine. Full stop.

We do however have choices on how we handle the situation. And, we definitely should not turn it into a proxy war, which it could easily become. If you think it was always a proxy war against Russia, fuck you. If anything, the Russians wanted it to be a proxy war against the west. It's a good thing they were so corrupt that the pro-Russian underground army was a complete fiction.

We should absolutely help the Ukrainians fuck the Russians, if they want our help.

And while I have some common ground with Naom Chomsky on some things, here is where we diverge. Fuck Putin. Fuck the systematic destruction of a country and it's people. Fuck George W Bush too. There, happy?

That was a surprisingly good read, right through to the comments (probably the surprise). Thanks!

From the comments: "My Hungarian father, who escaped Hungary as a young man, called them "filthy fools too stupid to be respectable traitors". "

I think I like that better, too. "Tankies" may have accurate intent, but seems like lazy name calling.

[Toadman]

https://twitter.com/DarthPutinKGB/st...50911525343232

[jono]

The difference between an interview of a Russian soldier/POW and a Ukrainian civilian/hostage is absurdly stark:

https://mobile.twitter.com/OlenaHalu...11047233953792

[Cono Este]

Those interviews on utube are pretty powerful. Having them call their mothers etc. at first I wasn’t sure of that practice with POWs, but it’s basically guaranteeing their safety and very effective in getting the truth out.

What a shit show.


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[highangle]

Quite the opposite...Putin's cucks fully expect him to make Russja great again, and if that means sacrificing your sons, then so be it: https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarV...ly_lost_their/

Just saw White Mustache guy in a DW documentary put together right before the Invasion. He was a "ProRussian separatist" in Donbass, yelling at UA tanks in 2018. Now he's supposedly a ProRussian Latvian, speaking out for Ruzzia...

Pretty sure what we got here is a professional ProRussian agitator. He and his crew probably organizes these little "ProRussia demonstrations" as well.
No wonder he and his orc women got so worked up when the local Latvian cameraman in the Reddit vid asked how long they'd been in the country...Bluster is an old tactic.

Julia Ioffe says that the Kremlin's policy is that there is no such thing as an organic demonstration - they're all paid for by somebody. They know this because they pay for all of the demonstrations they organize... Here we see that in action with Kremlin professional agitators ginning up fake flash mobs in NATO states.

Point is, when you see a "ProRussia demonstration" anywhere, someone's getting paid by the Kremlin to put it on, to use the freedoms of other countries against them.

[Toadman]

Not sure Kissinger is the guy I would be listening to or taking advice from on international affairs.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/h...174812366.html

Veteran US statesman Henry Kissinger has urged the West to stop trying to inflict a crushing defeat on Russian forces in Ukraine, warning that it would have disastrous consequences for the long term stability of Europe.

The former US Secretary of State and architect of the Cold War rapprochement between the US and China told a gathering in Davos that it would be fatal for the West by the mood of the moment, forgetting the proper place of Russia in the European balance of power.

Dr Kissinger said the war must not be allowed to drag on for much longer, and came close to calling on the West to bully Ukraine into accepting negotiations on terms that fall very far short of its current war aims.

“Negotiations need to begin in the next two months before it creates upheavals and tensions that will not be easily overcome. Ideally, the dividing line should be a return to the status quo ante. Pursuing the war beyond that point would not be about the freedom of Ukraine, but a new war against Russia itself,” he said.

He told the World Economic Forum that Russia had been an essential part of Europe for 400 years and had been the guarantor of the European balance of power structure at critical times. European leaders should not lose sight of the longer term relationship, and nor should they risk pushing Russia into a permanent alliance with China.

[neufox47]

Ukraine says they will accept no ceasefire or peace agreement that gives any of their territory away.

Good for them. Why give away part of your country when you are winning the war?


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[dunfree]

Not sure Kissinger is the guy I would be listening to or taking advice from on international affairs.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/h...174812366.html

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/...a-putin-232925

from 6 years ago talking about all the time Kissinger spends with Putin. I’d say it closer to Putin babbling than advice

[PB]

Veteran Russian UN diplomate shits on Putin's insanity: https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news...575b98e83d1951