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Thread: Ukraine
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11-28-2022, 02:31 PM #11226
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11-28-2022, 02:43 PM #11227
Photos taken of WW1 battlefields on the left column, modern day Ukraine on the right:
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11-28-2022, 04:26 PM #11228
Oh for fucks sake.
To the world and ourselves. To remind us that we are not perfect. And to remind us that this time, we are in the correct side of history. We have a lot of sins to atone for.
Why would you mention Hillary's emails? You think I'm a tRumper? Decidedly not.
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11-28-2022, 04:41 PM #11229
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11-28-2022, 06:23 PM #11230man of ice
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I'm waiting for a big boom*, or a series of them, deep inside Russia. It'll be interesting to see what happens then.
edit: *not nuclear
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11-28-2022, 09:04 PM #11231
I know you're not a Trumper, but acts of contrition and penitence are not my religion, and you ex-Bros shouldn't try to impose your Chomskyesque posttheology on me any more than Clarence Thomas and his Dominionist pals should impose theirs.
And from a diplomatic perspective, what do I get for prostrating myself in front of Xi and Putin and whatever oil, whaling, and tropical fruit dictatorship wants reparations money this week? Good graces?
Yeah right... Save the finger-wagging kumbaya jambalaya for after Russia un-invades Ukraine and China gives up its "manifest destiny" bullshit in Tibet and Taiwan.
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11-28-2022, 09:21 PM #11232
I wonder if leaving your foxhole at night to kill the enemy silently while he sleeps is still a thing in front of the front? OTOH the ability for a grunt at the front to thermal image the individual enemy in his hole, drop a bomb from a drone, watch it hit and then have a smoke has changed the game of demoralize/terrorize.
Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.
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11-28-2022, 10:19 PM #11233
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11-28-2022, 10:35 PM #11234
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11-28-2022, 11:18 PM #11235
Apparently it's still a thing, but now you wait for the starving orcs to chase a bunny.
https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/...Cq9enHzKksAAAA
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11-29-2022, 07:05 AM #11236
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11-29-2022, 07:23 AM #11237man of ice
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11-29-2022, 09:35 AM #11238
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11-29-2022, 01:10 PM #11239
riser, do you mostly agree with the points made here: https://theconversation.com/amp/shou...its-past-66525 ?
My personal observation (perhaps I live in a bubble) is that US or German (!) or French history of offenses are generally known and acknowledged, and discussion of same doesn’t really add much actual value in conversations or negotiations focused on responsible actions needed in a morally clear (as you’ve acknowledged) ‘house is on fire’ situation like the invasion of Ukraine.
What value do you see coming directly from a reminder made to a room of diplomats or heads of state of things they mostly already know?
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11-29-2022, 01:15 PM #11240
Or in a forum discussion…since you’re not advocating a lessened US or German response, you’re just making sure people here haven’t forgotten their history lessons?
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11-29-2022, 01:50 PM #11241
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11-29-2022, 02:37 PM #11242
Now we know. War is he'll. Let's get this done
Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.
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11-29-2022, 03:15 PM #11243
Agreed, obviously. So I still haven’t seen confirmation of what value you see in keeping it as a footnote or aside to any conversation about supporting Ukraine.
Maybe the logic here is ‘hey since we’re talking foreign policy and war and stuff, here’s some links to remind you of how western countries fucked over or invaded others. It doesn’t change the moral equation in any practical sense here, since we should still support Ukraine, but let’s kinda keep it on our minds anyway to make sure this educational opportunity isn’t lost’.
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11-29-2022, 03:28 PM #11244
The history of appeasement to ruthless invaders to find peace has shown that it doesn't work. Tell me why I'm wrong.
Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.
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11-29-2022, 04:17 PM #11245man of ice
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Well the Romans invaded a lot of people and there was the whole "Pax Romana" deal for quite a while. And Genghis Khan took it a lot easier of cities that didn't resist. What do I win?
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11-29-2022, 04:22 PM #11246
History is written by the winners. No
Seeker of Truth. Dispenser of Wisdom. Protector of the Weak. Avenger of Evil.
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11-29-2022, 04:39 PM #11247
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11-29-2022, 04:59 PM #11248
If I’m a citizen of a city and Ghengis Khan’s army is at my door I want appeasement every fucking time. There was no back up coming. If the situation is hopeless, appeasement is the right call.
Ukraine is no where near hopeless. They have shown they can win and there appear to be only two ways for Russia to win; western support falters or Russia uses many nukes.
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11-29-2022, 05:42 PM #11249man of ice
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Good interview (despite interviewer Anne McElvoy being somewhat annoying) from The Economist with Ben Hodges, who certainly has military credentials as the former commender of U.S. Army Euriope among other posts. He predicts Ukrainian victory, not to mention the dissolution of the Russian Federation.
https://www.economist.com/podcasts/2022/11/24/how-could-ukraine-win-the-war
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11-29-2022, 06:18 PM #11250
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