Ukraine

[neufox47]

So, supposedly all civilians have been evacuated from the steel plant. My pessimistic thought on this is that there will now be a massacre of the remaining soldiers, just in time for a ‘victory celebration’ on the ninth.

They’ve been trying to massacre them for a while. The only way I see that happening is if they use non-conventional weapons. But even then I believe the complex is designed to withstand chemical attacks given its original purpose and history.

[jono]

They’ve been trying to massacre them for a while. The only way I see that happening is if they use non-conventional weapons. But even then I believe the complex is designed to withstand chemical attacks given its original purpose and history.

Call me a cynic, but I think the reason they evacuated the civilians alive is that Russia took them as prisoners and they plan to grill them for information about the plant's defenses. I hope I'm wrong, but earlier photos showed civilian evacuees among Russian soldiers.

[cat in january]

Far far from an expert, but my reading is the Russians have been holding their Air Force back to a large degree. Most likely not wanting to loose such expensive equipment. Fully committing their air power would be a double down.

[tetzen]

Far far from an expert, but my reading is the Russians have been holding their Air Force back to a large degree. Most likely not wanting to loose such expensive equipment. Fully committing their air power would be a double down.

Nah, their Air Force is a Potemkin village too. If they tries to field the entire thing, the maintenance issues we saw with much of their tank, apc, and truck equipment would show up. There’s likely a good portion that can’t even get off the tarmac.

Thing is the Ukrainians still have a decently formidable air defense which is keeping the Russians out of their territory for the large part. That and the Russians suck at combined arms and can barely call in air support that we take for granted Americans can do on the regular.

[summit]

Russia's ADD strategic bombers are launching cruise missiles no problem (from uncontested Russian airspace, but that is how it is supposed to work) and they have made some gravity bomb raids including Mariupol.

They have also used their Kilo class SSKs to launch cruise missiles, which is what happens when you lose your air defense ships and can't defend against AScMs so you have to pull your surface combatants back to Sevastapol. (Ukraine claims they hit one sub with a MLRS strike while it was surfaced). Ukraine also claims they sank two more Raptor patrol boats (unconfirmed).

[highangle]

Snake Island de-inhabited once again...

[oldnew_guy]

Wow, the adoption of “Orc” to describe the Russian soldier is fascinating.

Why? Is it necessary to adopt this dehumanizing propaganda language to describe them?

[tetzen]

Wow, the adoption of “Orc” to describe the Russian soldier is fascinating.

Why? Is it necessary to adopt this dehumanizing propaganda language to describe them?

What else would you suggest using to describe a force that has raped, looted, tortured, and executed its way across Ukrainian lands?

[oldnew_guy]

What else would you suggest using to describe a force that has raped, looted, tortured, and executed its way across Ukrainian lands?

I’d use the adjectives you just wrote. I don’t need a caricature of them to understand what is happening nor do I think all of them are doing that.

It’s sort of like applying those terms to drafted Vietnam soldiers. Yeah, some did bad shit. Some just got sent their by their government unwillingly.

[ötzi]

You're right, semantics is clearly the most important issue here.

[summit]

I’d use the adjectives you just wrote. I don’t need a caricature of them to understand what is happening nor do I think all of them are doing that.

It’s sort of like applying those terms to drafted Vietnam soldiers. Yeah, some did bad shit. Some just got sent their by their government unwillingly.

Orc is shorthand for all of those adjectives.

This isn't Vietnam. These aren't our troops where we need to support our good troops and oppose our politicians.

These are foreign troops invading and brutalizing friendlies. Fuck them, fuck their government, and I'm sure some are not keen on the whole thing, that is tragic but fuck them too.

[jono]

What else would you suggest using to describe a force that has raped, looted, tortured, and executed its way across Ukrainian lands?

There are other fictional villains that could be used, but LOTR is uncannily applicable (probably not accidentally). Sacrificing large quantities of untrained cannon-fodder of "lower races" with centralized command and minimal autonomy at the lower levels. Along with several of the roles of other middle earth nations and groups. Germany as Rohan is a little surprising and one could argue the eagles are getting off their asses early this time, but then again not quite.

[Toadman]

Wow, the adoption of “Orc” to describe the Russian soldier is fascinating.

Why? Is it necessary to adopt this dehumanizing propaganda language to describe them?

Maybe because humans have a need to dehumanize to deal with the mass killing of other human beings. Chinks, Gooks, Japs, Krauts. It's been going on for a very long time. I'm guessing the Romans had a name for the Northern lands they conquered too. Barbarians comes to mind.

[summit]

Chinks, Gooks, Japs

Don't forget the Huns.

Orc is pejorative, but it is not a racial epithet (and Russia is a multiethnic state).

[oldnew_guy]

You're right, semantics is clearly the most important issue here.

Ha!

I just find peoples adoption of propaganda fascinating is all. Story old as time is dehumanizing your enemy so as to motivate your own people. Same thing the Russians did to motivate their troops on the initial invasion (“they are Nazis”).

I’m not defending the Russians. Quite the contrary.

[jono]

It's not a propoganda effort, though. Twitter has a character limit. Orc has 3 letters.

[dunfree]

Ha!

I just find peoples adoption of propaganda fascinating is all. Story old as time is dehumanizing your enemy so as to motivate your own people. Same thing the Russians did to motivate their troops on the initial invasion (“they are Nazis”).

I’m not defending the Russians. Quite the contrary.

you know a portion of Russia likes the image of their soldiers as horrible savages? They think murdering someone with a hammer should be celebrated. That’s the reason to object to orcs - because it leans into their narrative.

[oldnew_guy]

you know a portion of Russia likes the image of their soldiers as horrible savages? They think murdering someone with a hammer should be celebrated. That’s the reason to object to orcs - because it leans into their narrative.

I was under the impression that the term came from the Ukrainians. They are running a masterful propaganda campaign.

[MultiVerse]

Ukraine is doing a good job getting the word out about Russia's unjustified & unprovoked war. Real people fighting for their lives, families, and country against a cruel and corrupt mafia state. May they continue to successfully fight like hell on all fronts against the Russian invasion.

[ötzi]

I think it did come from the Ukrainians but in an organic way, up from the people, not down from propaganda. At least that's my impression.

[MultiVerse]

I find it much more interesting than analysis of ATGMs and T72s as I think it’s key in how UKR was able to motivate their population and get the west to be more proactive.

There's an argument to be made it's the other way around, that Zelenskyys team is bolstered and fortified from the ground up by the Ukrainian people. In account after account even before the war started most Ukrainians said and continue to say, "We will win." In the West when feckless elites initially wavered people took to the streets in support of Ukraine:

[highangle]

There are other fictional villains that could be used, but LOTR is uncannily applicable (probably not accidentally). Sacrificing large quantities of untrained cannon-fodder of "lower races" with centralized command and minimal autonomy at the lower levels. Along with several of the roles of other middle earth nations and groups. Germany as Rohan is a little surprising and one could argue the eagles are getting off their asses early this time, but then again not quite.

Pootin as a flaming eye in a tower that only a few dare look at, much less speak to...completely unaware of what's going on outside of his tunnel vision...

[happytimefunbox]

Victory Day!

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[MultiVerse]

^^ Man, the more things change... a brief history of Eastern Europe's VE Day May 8, 1945:

[leroy jenkins]

I hope he’s shitting bricks about being put under for surgery. Would be a shame if the anesthesiologist got the dosage wrong….

People that will meditate through serious surgery that typical one is not conscious for.... Laird Hamilton because he's a badass and Putin cus he's too scared not to.