Misaligned dynafit heel pins?

[the_prof]

Picked up some new boots this winter which have a bit longer bsl (+10mm), after adjusting my dynafit speed radicals I noticed there was a bit of an offset between the binding heel pins and the boot trenches:


Which I'm guessing i didn't notice before because of shorter boot, geometry, angles, yada yada. Initially i just brushed this off but pretty much immediately prerelease issue, im thinking because of the offset cause the bidings to have a preload. Did I get screwed on a shitty mount or am i just a shitty skiier?

[Boissal]

Shitty mount at the toe most likely. I bet you had the same issue in your shorter shells and didn't notice, +1 cm shell length shouldn't significantly exacerbate alignment issues.

To confirm toe issue you can back the heel piece all the way (to make room), lock the boot in the toe piece, and see where the center of the heel insert lands on the heel plate. It will probably be off center. If it's not confirm that your heel piece is centered, you just need to measure the distance to the edge of the ski on both sides.

If these were my skis and the toe was off I'd loosen the screws just enough that the toe piece can move a bit and see if I can get proper alignment. If that works I'd figure out which screw is pulling the toe sideways, usually it's only one that causes the issue. Pull all the screws, dab epoxy in the holes and on the thread of the 3 good ones, remount loosely, align everything (using the boot as a lever), torque, and let everything dry with 3 screws in place. Once that's done the 4th screw can go back in, unless it's drilled way off it should still be able to get in the hole but won't have enough pull to force the toe to rotate.

[Wes Mantooth]

That’s pretty extreme - I would definitely not ski with it like that for starters. How much did you adjust the BSL? I can’t see it exposing this so drastically given the limited adjustment range of dynafits but who knows.

My guess is a crooked mount or something off with the boots. There was a thread here from a little bit back where someone had some boots that had gotten warped during a punch and caused this issue. Is the other binding the same? And is it the same with the other boot?

If you determine the toe is mounted crooked you could try backing out the toe screws a bit, click the boot in, lock the toe, and (carefully) pry the toe piece back to center using the boot for leverage as you iteratively tighten the screws. I use that strategy for mounting tech bindings but it obviously works better before the holes are threaded

[XXX-er]

From the pict that the boot heel appears skewed to the looker's right, by that i mean the whole boot does not look centered on the ski

I assume that binding/ ski combo was an existing setup that used to work

so the first thing I would do is try the new boots in another binding to see if maybe the toe pins are off ?

then I would swap boots and skis around to see where the problem goes, if you don't know what the problem is first figure out what is not the problem


when i mount any AT binding be it tech or frame I mount the heel dead center, then I mount the toe by one screw only, I let the toe piece rotate around that one screw as I stomp the heel down, drill/ run in at least one screw and that toe assembly should be right where it is suposed to be, if its correct drill/ run in the rest. I do it in 2 steps just in case i fucked something up i got more chances with the next holes

[the_prof]

Popped the old boot back in and re-adjusted


problem obviously still exists, but i didn't notice/run into any problems last year. maybe i was barely within the tolerance or not shredding hard enough. I'm going to take them back to the guilty shop and see if they'll do anything for me, but seeing as the mount was last year i might end up having to use the wiggle & epoxy solution

[Wes Mantooth]

Yeah that’s off by more than an acceptable amount for sure so see if the shop will do anything but it’s doubtful. Otherwise try the epoxy wiggle technique. As others have said that should be done when installing the bindings to begin with. Even if the holes are drilled bang on the binding can still shift around as you tighten it down and the holes expand

I usually follow this method more or less: https://www.wildsnow.com/16524/do-it...-ski-bindings/

[XXX-er]

That is still out by quite a bit, I would loosen the screws, lock the boot in binding and crank on the boot to the left while tightening screws to get it lined up

loosening the heel piece and rotating it clockwise might also get the pins lined up

is this only happening on one ski ??

[Benneke10]

This video is for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wQTysZNNLs

I was surprised to learn recently that some tech boots aren't completely straight with regards to pin alignment. I was told by skimo co that sometimes the toe piece becomes crooked when the plastics cool in boot production, and that they have seen occasional slight misalignment across every brand

[the_prof]

is this only happening on one ski ??

its on both, offset is a little less on the other one

[gregL]

This video is for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wQTysZNNLs

I was surprised to learn recently that some tech boots aren't completely straight with regards to pin alignment. I was told by skimo co that sometimes the toe piece becomes crooked when the plastics cool in boot production, and that they have seen occasional slight misalignment across every brand

Not only that, but punching a boot for width and sometimes toe length can warp the sole if the bootfitter isn't careful to only heat the area that needs modification . . .

[the_prof]

Went back to the shop, homie was able to loosen the toe piece, rotate it into alignment, and screw it back down without making any modifications to the original mounting holes

Any concern about lack of epoxy or wood glue in the holes?


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[Benneke10]

Went back to the shop, homie was able to loosen the toe piece, rotate it into alignment, and screw it back down without making any modifications to the original mounting holes

Any concern about lack of epoxy or wood glue in the holes?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Yes I would be concerned about lack of epoxy or glue. You want to create a waterproof seal

[Jonathan S.]

Not only that, but punching a boot for width and sometimes toe length can warp the sole if the bootfitter isn't careful to only heat the area that needs modification . . .

Yep, a few years ago I mounted a Scarpa Alien "0.0" that had been punched for extra toe length by an alpine downhill ski shop.
One of the boots was clearly warped because of that ... but still just barely okay, since the heel pins essentially were not pre-loaded yet. Probably a little more punching and the boots would have been ruined (for anything but a weird dedicated Left<>Right setup with one toe piece deliberately misaligned).

[Jonathan S.]

Went back to the shop, homie was able to loosen the toe piece, rotate it into alignment, and screw it back down without making any modifications to the original mounting holes

Any concern about lack of epoxy or wood glue in the holes?

Yes I would be concerned about lack of epoxy or glue. You want to create a waterproof seal

If the screws were just backed out a bit then cranked back down, I would leave them be.
Otherwise, I'd be worrying more about removing all four screws completely and then reinstalling them (which in theory should be fine, but that can sometimes lead to stripped threads, then you have to helicoil).

[Jonathan S.]

This video is for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wQTysZNNLs

Helpful video ... but:

1. I prefer to merely loosen the screws, rather then remove them entirely, as the latter always has some risk of stripping the hole threads.
2. A water-based glue like wood glue or officially designated ski binding glue will rust the screws. (As a TGR poster once commented: "How did the water get into the binding holes that rusted the screws? You put it in there!") Since switching to this glue: https://www.amazon.com/GE-Sealants-A...dp/B089N98MBT/ ... any binding screws removed from my mounts have never been rusty.
3. First, I torque the loosely mounted toe piece in the desired direction by leveraging (not pounding!) with a tack hammer (has a very skinny handle), so that I can torque down two screws that are diagonal to each other while still applying torque.
4. Next, I insert the boot, pull the toe lever, torque the toe piece via the boot, and torque down the one loose screw that is accessible.
5. Finally, remove the boot, and torque down the one loose screw in back.

[kamtron]

I had my own adventure with this problem recently on a mount. I've always had to do a little of this w Dynafit mounts, but w my new Alpinist the heel is so rigid I really wanted it spot on. It was off maybe 1.5 mm, about half as bad as in your picture.

I couldn't make it perfect even with lots of wiggling and retightening and took it to Backcountry Essentials in Bham. After some light ribbing on the quality of my mount, the guy offered the crucial tip:

To get the heel to the left (like in your photo), start tightening the *rearward* left of the 4 toe screws. Then move to the forward left screw, rear right, fore right. I was able to apply torque with the boot locked in the toe while tightening after buying a new bit driver with a narrower handle that didn't interfere with the sole. For final tightening of the rearward screws I took out the boot, only tightening in the same Z sequence.

This fixed my problem, although my left boot is still slightly off probably as a result of a bigger 6th toe punch on that shell.

[kamtron]

Also, I probably could have been more careful center punching my paper template and avoided some of this difficulty

[XXX-er]

for any tech or frame binding where the heel has to exactly drop into a binding heelpiece I like to use the actual boot & binding

First mount the heel dead center wherever it should be , then mount the toe by 1 screw only so the toe piece can pivot on that 1 screw, lock the boot into the binding, mark n drill t least one more screw, check the placement and it should be perfect,

If its not perfect I still got 2 more chances with the other screws

[kamtron]

Seems good if it works for you. I worry eyeballing the center of my toepiece holes, marking, and drilling is bound to introduce more slop than a careful template mount.

[XXX-er]

The template IS good for figuring out where to put the heel piece, where to put the toes piece

The 1 screw thing aligns the boot/binding perfectly

I eye ball drilling the screw hole of an already located toe piece by center punching with a 3" dw screw, drill a pilot hole with my smallest drill bit, drill again with the correct bit and the hole for the screw ends up dead center

Not sure why there are so many misaligned dynafit heel thread threads after " careful template mounts " ?

[Spats]

for any tech or frame binding where the heel has to exactly drop into a binding heelpiece I like to use the actual boot & binding

First mount the heel dead center wherever it should be , then mount the toe by 1 screw only so the toe piece can pivot on that 1 screw, lock the boot into the binding, mark n drill t least one more screw, check the placement and it should be perfect,

If its not perfect I still got 2 more chances with the other screws

This is the right way to do it. It's a lot easier if you can get to the front two mounting screws with the boot still in the binding.

Not all boots are exactly straight, either. A tiny misalignment of the toe fitting, as in a fraction of a millimeter, will result in a visible misalignment at the heel. Frankly, it's amazing that boot manufacturers get it as close as they do!

This is also true of "template mounts." The inevitable tolerance for slop and misalignment in the template is far more than the fraction of a millimeter at the toepiece required to misalign the heel by several millimeters. Do it the way XXX-er suggested.

[kamtron]

Yet even shops with jigs need to fiddle with screw tightening to figure it out. Seems like even with perfect screw alignment there is some wiggle room, and the extra variable of boots which are not perfectly straight.

I may try your way next time.

[XXX-er]

Yeah so I don't think there are really that many boots made with crooked fittings, in any case swapping a boot with suspect fittings into a known good skis/ binding setup would show pretty quick if the boot pin holes are crooked.

I think what really happens is a lot of frame & tech binding toe pieces get instaled crooked either by DIYers using flacid pieces of downloaded paper or a shop using the jig

I asked my buddy the owner of the local ski touring n outdoor store who had sold/ mounted alot of touring bindings how did he mount these fucking AT bindings ?

So what he told me is what i told you and it was a eureka moment ... of course use the boot & binding as the mounting jig