New Intuition Liner Idea - Give me feedback

[GoldenBC]

I've been chatting with Intuition about making a new liner as I feel they don't have one that checks off this box. I thought I would put it out to the community to get more opinions on it.


Model: HD Pro Tour
Use: Performance skiing and touring
Fit: MV ankle with LV toe box. Optional pads for HV ankle.
Rationale: Most boots we sell have a walk mode. Most Intuition liners we sell are because we want to tighten the ankle and increase space around the forefoot and instep. Most boot work we do is increase heel retention and increase forefoot space. No walk mode liner has performance skiing in mind. They are low volume with soft foam. In many intuition liners, the foam is too thick behind the heel and achilles/lower calf causing the foot to be pushed forward. The soft tissue around the achilles won't compress the foam enough. I can't tour in Intuitions because they don't take up enough volume and I find they get too mushy with the heat that is generated while touring.

Notes:

- The Race HD has a great balance of ankle hold and forefoot room, and doesn't take away instep and toe height because of the moccasin construction. This is modelled after that liner.
- Strobel soles are so much better for moulding with footbeds, which everyone has. They are also better for cutting to allow heater cables to pass through without deforming after heating.
- Include velcro patches on the liner for the attachment of spoilers, and preshaped J bars, ankle, and tongue pads.
- Minimize lace loops to reduce ankle rub. Four loops will hold the ankle and close the cuff while also will make loosening the laces easier. Placing the top two loops high will get the plastic cinch piece out from behind the shell.
- Use a semi scalloped cuff to make females friendly and reduce pressure on the calf while walking.
- No front touring panel to reduce seams at the front of the ankle and increase padding. Instead, use a medium density upper cuff that will flex along the joint line of the cuff and ankle panels. Forward ROM can be accentuated by the tongue being mobile with loose buckles.

[Reformed]

I've been chatting with Intuition about making a new liner as I feel they don't have one that checks off this box. I thought I would put it out to the community to get more opinions on it.


Model: HD Pro Tour
Use: Performance skiing and touring
Fit: MV ankle with LV toe box. Optional pads for HV ankle.
Rationale: Most boots we sell have a walk mode. Most Intuition liners we sell are because we want to tighten the ankle and increase space around the forefoot and instep. Most boot work we do is increase heel retention and increase forefoot space. No walk mode liner has performance skiing in mind. They are low volume with soft foam. In many intuition liners, the foam is too thick behind the heel and achilles/lower calf causing the foot to be pushed forward. The soft tissue around the achilles won't compress the foam enough. I can't tour in Intuitions because they don't take up enough volume and I find they get too mushy with the heat that is generated while touring.

Notes:

- The Race HD has a great balance of ankle hold and forefoot room, and doesn't take away instep and toe height because of the moccasin construction. This is modelled after that liner.
- Strobel soles are so much better for moulding with footbeds, which everyone has. They are also better for cutting to allow heater cables to pass through without deforming after heating.
- Include velcro patches on the liner for the attachment of spoilers, and preshaped J bars, ankle, and tongue pads.
- Minimize lace loops to reduce ankle rub. Four loops will hold the ankle and close the cuff while also will make loosening the laces easier. Placing the top two loops high will get the plastic cinch piece out from behind the shell.
- Use a semi scalloped cuff to make females friendly and reduce pressure on the calf while walking.
- No front touring panel to reduce seams at the front of the ankle and increase padding. Instead, use a medium density upper cuff that will flex along the joint line of the cuff and ankle panels. Forward ROM can be accentuated by the tongue being mobile with loose buckles.

Take my money.

[XXX-er]

YMMV but I am a pwerwrap fanboi cuz that piece of elastic over the instep fucks me up

[adrenalated]

I would buy these.

[mntlion]

good idea, solves a few problems for sure

Maybe a thicker area on the vertical of the tongue to help with heel retention?

like the velcro areas around the heel and at the front flex zone to add volume thingies. (but glueing them on is usually better/more durable if you take liners out )

[HAB]

Yup, I'd buy those. Bonus points if you can finally get Intuition to put a lace system that isn't complete garbage on them.

[Stewy30]

Excellent concept, the key is definitely reducing the volume of the liner around the forefoot and toes. Haven’t seen the HD race, but I find even the lowest volume intuition liners at the toes is still far thicker than what you see on a stock liner.


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[GoldenBC]

good idea, solves a few problems for sure

Maybe a thicker area on the vertical of the tongue to help with heel retention?

like the velcro areas around the heel and at the front flex zone to add volume thingies. (but glueing them on is usually better/more durable if you take liners out )

I thought about two tongue volumes but don't want velcro or big seams. I thought you could have a second LV low density layer that is bonded to the mocassin tongue from the met heads to the top of the tongue. I figured that would make the seams where the tongue is stitched to the ankle panel too large. I figured a pre shaped intuition foam pad with velcro that stuck to the face of the ankle was the simplest. It would be a quick solution anyone could do and would be removable/testable. You could also have multiple densities. It would go under the elastic which would help protect it, plus the moccasin tongue doesn't twist around the same as a standard tongue.

If someone is using any technique what so ever, i think it should be easy to put the liner in without pulling off velcro.

[GoldenBC]

Yup, I'd buy those. Bonus points if you can finally get Intuition to put a lace system that isn't complete garbage on them.

95% of the people I see don't use laces. I like the concept but in practice, they are a pain in the ass. Also, if your boot fits well, you shouldn't have heel lift. I can't lift my heel with my boots completely undone.

That being said, I incorporated a quick lace system using four loops. Two at the ankle and two at the very top of the liner. This would accomplish three things; ankle hold, easy to loosen without having to stuff your hand awkwardly down your boot, and would get the bulk of the laces or the quick draw thing out from under your shell and power strap, which often creates pressure points on the shin.

Would it give supreme hold or cause deformation with so little loops? I don't know.

[GoldenBC]

Excellent concept, the key is definitely reducing the volume of the liner around the forefoot and toes. Haven’t seen the HD race, but I find even the lowest volume intuition liners at the toes is still far thicker than what you see on a stock liner.


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Def check out the HD race. Also, use better toe caps that what intuition sends. I find they just hurt your toes but don't add much volume. I have much thicker and softer ones which will totally compress any of the thin, soft intuition foams, like those found in the pro tour. Also, after the initial moulding, reheat the toes again and just go to town on toe caps and pushing your foot forward into the toe box.

[sierra_cement]

good idea, solves a few problems for sure

Maybe a thicker area on the vertical of the tongue to help with heel retention?

like the velcro areas around the heel and at the front flex zone to add volume thingies. (but glueing them on is usually better/more durable if you take liners out )

+1 ^^

I currently tour in intuition Tour wraps. They've been working decently well for me... after I've had a bootfitter press some of the foam down around the the 6th toe area to get some more room in the forefoot.

I also wish the wrap overlap portion takes up some more volume, since the instep height in my MTN Labs cause just a tad too much volume than I'd like when in ski mode.

So everything @GoldenBC details in the original post and @mntlion appended are spot on.

As has been previously posted, Take my money.

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[Westcoaster]

I've been chatting with Intuition about making a new liner as I feel they don't have one that checks off this box. I thought I would put it out to the community to get more opinions on it.


Model: HD Pro Tour
Use: Performance skiing and touring
Fit: MV ankle with LV toe box. Optional pads for HV ankle.
Rationale: Most boots we sell have a walk mode. Most Intuition liners we sell are because we want to tighten the ankle and increase space around the forefoot and instep. Most boot work we do is increase heel retention and increase forefoot space. No walk mode liner has performance skiing in mind. They are low volume with soft foam. In many intuition liners, the foam is too thick behind the heel and achilles/lower calf causing the foot to be pushed forward. The soft tissue around the achilles won't compress the foam enough. I can't tour in Intuitions because they don't take up enough volume and I find they get too mushy with the heat that is generated while touring.

Notes:

- The Race HD has a great balance of ankle hold and forefoot room, and doesn't take away instep and toe height because of the moccasin construction. This is modelled after that liner.
- Strobel soles are so much better for moulding with footbeds, which everyone has. They are also better for cutting to allow heater cables to pass through without deforming after heating.
- Include velcro patches on the liner for the attachment of spoilers, and preshaped J bars, ankle, and tongue pads.
- Minimize lace loops to reduce ankle rub. Four loops will hold the ankle and close the cuff while also will make loosening the laces easier. Placing the top two loops high will get the plastic cinch piece out from behind the shell.
- Use a semi scalloped cuff to make females friendly and reduce pressure on the calf while walking.
- No front touring panel to reduce seams at the front of the ankle and increase padding. Instead, use a medium density upper cuff that will flex along the joint line of the cuff and ankle panels. Forward ROM can be accentuated by the tongue being mobile with loose buckles.

This is fantastic. The stupid thick pro tour sole + the stupid thick velcro tongue attachment make fitting toe boxes a pain in the ass

[sierra_cement]

Excellent concept, the key is definitely reducing the volume of the liner around the forefoot and toes. Haven’t seen the HD race, but I find even the lowest volume intuition liners at the toes is still far thicker than what you see on a stock liner.


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I like how zipfits have just a layer of neoprene in the forefoot and no foam. That works really well for me to have warm toes and non-cut-off circulation even on frigid -20C days. But zipfits are my alpine setup. Too heavy to tour in.

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[herrgard]

Can it be made seamless midfoot?

And with foam on top of the toes? I just want width and length in the toebox, but maybe I'm the only one that wants a low toe box. Most boots today feels like the toes gets as much space as the insteap, which is a really weird fit imo.

[GoldenBC]

Can it be made seamless midfoot?

And with foam on top of the toes? I just want width and length in the toebox, but maybe I'm the only one that wants a low toe box. Most boots today feels like the toes gets as much space as the insteap, which is a really weird fit imo.

I hear you on that new weird trend. I can't do Hojis/radicals with their crazy high toe box.

This would have foam on top of the toe box, just like the HD Race. Pretty much the same as the dreamliner without the extra bs. Perhaps the velcro could go right over the toes to have the option to stick another layer on there. I wouldn't want to make it so that people have to have tight toes if they have tight ankles.

As for seamless midfoot, I don't think that's possible because of the different densities of foam used. Perhaps if the soft touch lining bridged over the seam that would mellow it out. It's worth noting that the location of this seam (same as HD Race) is located well behind the 6th toe, but in front of the back of the 5th metatarsal. Unlike many of their liners, this doesn't seem to cause as many issues.

[rfconroy]

Love the Velcro idea for custom added shapes!
Is that being done on other boots.

Why have have it just on certain areas, why not full zones - for even more customization?

Also thing that popped into my head was maybe a custom tongue attachment via velcro to increase liner stiffness - in a similar way that the power wrap does - stiffer localized sections on the sides of the liner.

[Judo Chop!]

I like how zipfits have just a layer of neoprene in the forefoot and no foam. That works really well for me to have warm toes and non-cut-off circulation even on frigid -20C days.
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I was going to comment this same thing. Take a look at the zipfit toes - neoprene with thinsulate and merino wool inside. so comfy and warm. The neoprene allows it to effectively stretch to any foot width as needed, without compromise.

Good point about foam behind the heels causing issues without benefits.
I also like your seam pattern on the outside-forefoot. I HATE when liners have a seam right across the 5th met head.

these look great.

Say hi to Tom from big Kyle

[Jongle]

I’d buy these. The new Zipfit GFT liner makes my feet very happy, but these could be a great lighter alternative for the biggest days.

[kootenayskier]

I hear you on that new weird trend. I can't do Hojis/radicals with their crazy high toe box.

This would have foam on top of the toe box, just like the HD Race. Pretty much the same as the dreamliner without the extra bs. Perhaps the velcro could go right over the toes to have the option to stick another layer on there. I wouldn't want to make it so that people have to have tight toes if they have tight ankles.

As for seamless midfoot, I don't think that's possible because of the different densities of foam used. Perhaps if the soft touch lining bridged over the seam that would mellow it out. It's worth noting that the location of this seam (same as HD Race) is located well behind the 6th toe, but in front of the back of the 5th metatarsal. Unlike many of their liners, this doesn't seem to cause as many issues.

Yes, the Hoji’s toe box is absurdly high, but easily fixed with my Luxury liners. I haven’t tried any Intuitions using a moccasin style forefoot, but I like your concept. Definitely ditch the front touring cutouts - noticeable loss of hold and comfort in my pro tours.

[wilcox510]

This is a great idea. I'm not a fan of the Intuition Tour Pro. Part of the reason is the neoprene tour cutout is right at the top of the heel so it takes away from heel hold. I've been getting Intuition liners made for Scarpa Maesrales instead. Notice from this pic the difference in cutout location. Although this Scarpa liner is way to soft and mushy. My plan for next year was to try to get liners from the Maestrale XT which apparently has more of the denser HD foam.

Not sure why that's rotated and how to fix it..

[Boissal]

The other neoprene cutout around the ankle is a problem for me in the TourPro. I don't feel like it does all that much in terms of improving ROM but it certainly does a great job of exposing my ankle bone directly to the shell. Those cutouts are not a bad idea but for some of us they're placed in anatomically idiotic areas. Thin sections would be great. Full cutouts are no good.

[Cocximus]

Yes please. I'm struggling to replace my Mercury liners. Tried the MV pro tour. Way too much space. I ended up with 6mm shim above the footboard, a butterfly pad on the ankle and padding in the instep. Too much crap. Then I got the HV. They don't have the heel hold I was hoping. It doesn't feel like my heel sinked in the heel pocket after molding.

[mntlion]

I've been chatting with Intuition about making a new liner as I feel they don't have one that checks off this box. I thought I would put it out to the community to get more opinions on it.


Model: HD Pro Tour
Use: Performance skiing and touring
Fit: MV ankle with LV toe box. Optional pads for HV ankle.
Rationale: Most boots we sell have a walk mode. Most Intuition liners we sell are because we want to tighten the ankle and increase space around the forefoot and instep. Most boot work we do is increase heel retention and increase forefoot space. No walk mode liner has performance skiing in mind. They are low volume with soft foam. In many intuition liners, the foam is too thick behind the heel and achilles/lower calf causing the foot to be pushed forward. The soft tissue around the achilles won't compress the foam enough. I can't tour in Intuitions because they don't take up enough volume and I find they get too mushy with the heat that is generated while touring.

Notes:

- The Race HD has a great balance of ankle hold and forefoot room, and doesn't take away instep and toe height because of the moccasin construction. This is modelled after that liner.
- Strobel soles are so much better for moulding with footbeds, which everyone has. They are also better for cutting to allow heater cables to pass through without deforming after heating.
- Include velcro patches on the liner for the attachment of spoilers, and preshaped J bars, ankle, and tongue pads.
- Minimize lace loops to reduce ankle rub. Four loops will hold the ankle and close the cuff while also will make loosening the laces easier. Placing the top two loops high will get the plastic cinch piece out from behind the shell.
- Use a semi scalloped cuff to make females friendly and reduce pressure on the calf while walking.
- No front touring panel to reduce seams at the front of the ankle and increase padding. Instead, use a medium density upper cuff that will flex along the joint line of the cuff and ankle panels. Forward ROM can be accentuated by the tongue being mobile with loose buckles.

1) I think this is a GREAT idea for a liner

2) How much of this problem will this liner actually solve, or are people just getting boots way too big/wide and after the paper light thin liner packs out, and they try to ski something a tiny bit difficult they start to realise the issues? IE: will this liner solve the issue of boot shells too big

I guess this is part question and part rant.

nice idea, hope it will solve more problems then just prolong the problems

[carlh]

This looks like an interesting option to replace the stock liners in my 1st year hawx xtd. Strobel sole and stiff foam with a touring pivot would be money

[Hughwindlip]

I have the pro tongue in a hawx 130xtd and exclusively tour in those.

From afternoon hops on the North Shore to long proper 8+ hour days.

Been using them for 2 years. Works well.

I've towed gear up moraines and across glaciers in this setup and broke trail.

Came from pro tours and stock, but these work the best and ski wayyyyy better.

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