Best Full Sized Truck?

[margotron]

Is there a TL;DR yet? I needs to knows too

[skibrd]

Is there a TL;DR yet? I needs to knows too

Ford, gas, 250/350, automatic transmission, 2010-2016.



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[CallMeAl]

Who out there is running a domestic truck: F250, Dodge 2500, Chevy 2500... looking to get a diesel, probably a manual, crew cab- Mid 2000s...

Thoughts...? What to look for, what to avoid?

I bought a 2007.5 Silverado LTZ 2500/Duramax w/115k miles this time last year. Look on eastern classifieds- they don't carry the same premium there as they do in western states.

Can't speak to hauling comparisons between brands, but this pickup tows my 20' enclosed trailer nicely at 70mph. Interior is the nicest/most comfortable of this era IMO.

Things to look out for on these generation Chevy diesels (LMM, as well as previous LBZ/LLY generations) are:
Injectors- If you see excessive exhaust hazing on startup, walk away or negotiate. ($5k+ repair)
CP3 Fuel Pump- Hard/expensive to diagnose since a bad CP3 shares many symptoms with bad injector(s), but if an aftermarket lift pump is installed, ask why. They're a common band-aid for a weak CP3. ($3k+ repair)
Alison Transmission- Great transmission if cared for, but very expensive if not. They're known to go down if aftermarket filters are used, or if worn U joints are left unattended (vibration can crack the case) ($8k+ repair).

Avg. MPG is 17/20 mpg unloaded, 12/15 mpg towing. Pickup is "deleted/tuned", and has been for the right reasons (economy/dependability vs performance) since 30k miles.

VS Gas

My neighbor has the same rig but with the 6.0 gas motor and he gets 10/12 unloaded, 7/8 towing.

Even though I spend less money on fuel than he does, my initial purchase price, maintenance costs and repair bills are/will be considerably more expensive than his over the life of each of our vehicles.

The way this (hopefully) pencils out is that I drive ~30k miles/year, and intend to make this pickup last about twice as many miles as my neighbor's 6.0 likely will. Pre-DEF diesel motors will last a very long time with regular (often expensive) upkeep, and when used primarily for long trips.

Short trips will shorten the life of any diesel motor- this is amplified on motors with emissions equipment such as DPF, EGR. If you buy a diesel and want it to last as long as they're fabled to, you'll need another vehicle for a grocery getter (unless you live 50 miles from the store).

Also on Gas vs. Diesel, remember that a heavy diesel motor eats into your payload capacity. My neighbor can (legally) put a heavier slide in camper in his pickup than I can, even though my diesel would likely haul the same camper better (less downshifting, better fuel economy, better low end torque, more stable in windy conditions).

Not trying to talk you out of a diesel by any means, but for a lot of people the list of scenarios where owning one actually makes sense is shorter when compared to a gasser.

How did you like your Sixpac? I've actually got my eye on a 1990 Sixpac but don't have any experience with them.

[bovine]

We really liked our Six Pac. It was a later model- I think one of the last years they were made- a 2006. For a hard side, it was one of the lighter ones we could've got. This was way back in the evolution of our camper owning-s. The truck was a lemon, so we sold the whole rig. In retrospect, we should've kept the Six Pac and just gotten a better truck...

[SoVT Joey]

I bought a 2007.5 Silverado LTZ 2500/Duramax w/115k miles this time last year. Look on eastern classifieds- they don't carry the same premium there as they do in western states.

Can't speak to hauling comparisons between brands, but this pickup tows my 20' enclosed trailer nicely at 70mph. Interior is the nicest/most comfortable of this era IMO.

Things to look out for on these generation Chevy diesels (LMM, as well as previous LBZ/LLY generations) are:
Injectors- If you see excessive exhaust hazing on startup, walk away or negotiate. ($5k+ repair)
CP3 Fuel Pump- Hard/expensive to diagnose since a bad CP3 shares many symptoms with bad injector(s), but if an aftermarket lift pump is installed, ask why. They're a common band-aid for a weak CP3. ($3k+ repair)
Alison Transmission- Great transmission if cared for, but very expensive if not. They're known to go down if aftermarket filters are used, or if worn U joints are left unattended (vibration can crack the case) ($8k+ repair).

Avg. MPG is 17/20 mpg unloaded, 12/15 mpg towing. Pickup is "deleted/tuned", and has been for the right reasons (economy/dependability vs performance) since 30k miles.

VS Gas

My neighbor has the same rig but with the 6.0 gas motor and he gets 10/12 unloaded, 7/8 towing.

Even though I spend less money on fuel than he does, my initial purchase price, maintenance costs and repair bills are/will be considerably more expensive than his over the life of each of our vehicles.

The way this (hopefully) pencils out is that I drive ~30k miles/year, and intend to make this pickup last about twice as many miles as my neighbor's 6.0 likely will. Pre-DEF diesel motors will last a very long time with regular (often expensive) upkeep, and when used primarily for long trips.

Short trips will shorten the life of any diesel motor- this is amplified on motors with emissions equipment such as DPF, EGR. If you buy a diesel and want it to last as long as they're fabled to, you'll need another vehicle for a grocery getter (unless you live 50 miles from the store).

Also on Gas vs. Diesel, remember that a heavy diesel motor eats into your payload capacity. My neighbor can (legally) put a heavier slide in camper in his pickup than I can, even though my diesel would likely haul the same camper better (less downshifting, better fuel economy, better low end torque, more stable in windy conditions).

Not trying to talk you out of a diesel by any means, but for a lot of people the list of scenarios where owning one actually makes sense is shorter when compared to a gasser.

How did you like your Sixpac? I've actually got my eye on a 1990 Sixpac but don't have any experience with them.

they are cheaper over here on the east coast because by the time they are 10 years old they have been so rotted out by salt they are essentially un-inspectable in a lot of the north east states. New York and vermont are especially ridiculous on inspections. If you live in an inspection free state, then shopping here may be perfect, unscrewing bolts to work on it will be a different story. I have a 2017 super duty that gets oil under coated twice a year and i still have to use torches to get any bolts off.

also one thing to consider on these trucks, is buy with the least amount of technology available in the truck unless you can buy with a FACTORY WARRANTY. You absolutely do not want the bullshit of fixing electrical problems out of warranty. Just an example, my heated steering wheel stopped heating…. It was free under warranty to fix, $3800 if I had been out of warranty.

[Pinned]

Just seconding the above - do not buy a truck from the Northeast in an attempt to save money. It will bite you later, they are all rusty. Grew up in the Northeast and spent a lot of time working on cars - it's a lot more labor intensive, you go through a lot more maintenance parts, and you break a lot more parts due to the rust. I would gladly pay a 20% premium on an older truck to get one elsewhere.

[TeleBeaver]

When I first moved out west in a van that had spent 15 years in the northeast, mechanics were shocked and appalled and charged me a huge premium to do basic shit like replace shocks and springs. East coast shops don't mess around with getting rusted bolts off and just go right to the torch to save time (it can'tb e stuck if its liquid), but these shops didn't know how to deal with it as well since most vehicles in Colorado don't have that issue. So yes, avoid northeast vehicles, but Atlanta is actually a great place to buy used. Good weather and a large population so lots of choices that drive prices down a bit.

[PeachesNCream]

also one thing to consider on these trucks, is buy with the least amount of technology available in the truck unless you can buy with a FACTORY WARRANTY. You absolutely do not want the bullshit of fixing electrical problems out of warranty. Just an example, my heated steering wheel stopped heating…. It was free under warranty to fix, $3800 if I had been out of warranty.

This is good advice, especially with the newer trucks. I was talking to the ford dealer a couple years ago and he was saying to access a lot of the main computer parts they have to open things up from the front which requires them to take all sorts of shit out. Long story short if you need to replace anything computerized it starts at like $3k

[MiddleOfNight]

Look for a ford with the 6.2 gasser. Very reliable compared to the older 6.8 v10s and 5.4 v8s, and a lot cheaper than any diesel. The 6 speed auto paired with the 6.2 gasser is also super solid compared to the older E4OD behind the v10s. Any ford superduty newer than 08 will have a coil sprung front end which has a much better ride and tighter turn radius than the older leaf sprung designs. If it were my money I'd be looking for a 2011-2016 F-350 gasser. The 350 will have more payload than the 250 usually, which is the critical number for slide in campers. Those trucks were in a different class for reliability compared to a lot of the other ford junk.

X3, qft .. I came to say this.
Our director of fleet strongly cautioned me against the V10 for reliability issues, but never really expanded on why.

I chose ext cab, with 81.6 bed - the 141.8 wb fits in the garage, turns great, and having room inside the cab was important. Not sure how that bed translates to #camperlife.
ethanol-free improves performance noticeably @15mpg, but we don't have any speed limits over 55. +8" clearance, high capacity on a gooseneck (+15k on a 4:30 locker). I'm a homer. But if you can find one, pounce.

[CallMeAl]

Just seconding the above - do not buy a truck from the Northeast in an attempt to save money. It will bite you later, they are all rusty. Grew up in the Northeast and spent a lot of time working on cars - it's a lot more labor intensive, you go through a lot more maintenance parts, and you break a lot more parts due to the rust. I would gladly pay a 20% premium on an older truck to get one elsewhere.

Mine came from Albany, NY and isn't rusty. PO used it to haul landscaping trailers during the summer, and rarely drove it during the salt months.

I paid $17k for it, about $10k less than I would've paid for the same pickup in Bozeman.

I kind of figured it went with out saying, but yeah, if the metal parts are brown and flaky, you probably shouldn't buy that one. Good point.

[skaredshtles]

Is there a TL;DR yet? I needs to knows too

Yeah - don't buy right now. Wait until things return to some semblance of "normal"...

[Dantheman]

Yeah - don't buy right now. Wait until things return to some semblance of "normal"...

Except "normal" may never return.

[skaredshtles]

Except "normal" may never return.

I mean... you may be right. But if you *can* hold off... I'd recommend holding off.

[bovine]

Thanks Everyone for the helpful advice.

We're not in a super hurry and yes, prices for rigs are pretty ridiculous these days, but we are keeping an eye out. Sounds like a Ford 2011-2016 or so with the 6.2 engine-gas, F350 so we don't have to mess with suspension mods. If we found the right truck/camper combo within our price range that would be nice- the "old man special" from the original owner, garage kept...

I've had my Tundra w/ an old Northstar TC700 for many years now, but we are in the hunt for a hard-side rig that will be better for year-round use.

I mean... you may be right. But if you *can* hold off... I'd recommend holding off.

[XavierD]

Except "normal" may never return.

I expect the consumer appetite for $45-75k trucks to evaporate pretty quickly when interest rates go back up and sub 3% 60-72month loans aren’t available.
I’d also expect fuel to stay up around the 05-07 pricing than the ‘10-‘18 low prices.

[Bosco]

Another vote against buying from the NE. I bought a new truck in '97, moved back to California in 2011. I brought it to a 4wheel drive shop thinking I may do some upgrades. The shop owner told me to drive it home and never drive it again. Went home and called one of the charities to come pick it up.

[margotron]

Bumping this for price intel

How is the used truck market now // what are some milestone indicators of normal? Interest rates are 6+ but new truck production is catching up

[Stuntmonkey]

Bumping this for price intel

How is the used truck market now // what are some milestone indicators of normal? Interest rates are 6+ but new truck production is catching up

Still a big chip shortage and it's probably going to get worse too. Interest rates are killing the used market high pricing that we saw over covid. Seeing a lot of prices come back down to earth but also still a lot of people hoping to cash in. Patience is key.

[margotron]

Interest rates are killing the used market high pricing that we saw over covid.

how does this work. is it because the interest rate on a used car loan is sky high? id have assumed high interest rates would push some new car buyers into the used market, adding even more competition to the used market

[SoVT Joey]

Bumping this for price intel

How is the used truck market now // what are some milestone indicators of normal? Interest rates are 6+ but new truck production is catching up

i just was forced to buy a used super duty. I had full plans on ordering a new truck. Ford was supposed to open ordering for 2023 in august, now they are saying December for ordering and talking 10-14 month delivery for higher trim packages. I ended up at 6.2% which is an ass fucking as far as I’m concerned, but I had no option. I couldn’t wait and rack another 30k on a truck and be out of warranty. At least the new warranties are killer. I did get a 7 year 140k bumper to bumper.