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Thread: Wildfire 2022

  1. #176
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    It is also running into the Ferguson fire from 2018 which I hope ought to slow things down decently.

    Edit: that was referring to shakyknees's post about the Oak fire.

  2. #177
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    Yeah I posted yesterday about it heading toward Ferguson scar. Hope that helps. Meanwhile predictions of humidity increase & possible thunderstorms this week…
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  3. #178
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    I thought this was interesting. My neighbor has a place just north of Salmon ID. He went up to check on it Saturday knowing there’s not much he can do at this point. The fire is just across the river on the ridge from his place as of today. As he was headed out yesterday, he said he saw about 16 logging trucks along with fellers and harvesters headed up the FS road where they’re going to make a stand. That entire area is gnarly. It sounds like they’re going to do some clear cutting while they’re putting in their dozer lines too.

  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bjenny View Post
    I thought this was interesting. My neighbor has a place just north of Salmon ID. He went up to check on it Saturday knowing there’s not much he can do at this point. The fire is just across the river on the ridge from his place as of today. As he was headed out yesterday, he said he saw about 16 logging trucks along with fellers and harvesters headed up the FS road where they’re going to make a stand. That entire area is gnarly. It sounds like they’re going to do some clear cutting while they’re putting in their dozer lines too.
    So is the smoke we have on the SRP blowing southeast from the Moose fire? Vis pretty bad today, reminiscent of last week.

  5. #180
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    I have been off work since mid day thursday, and this Oak fire has had very good streams of not just command, but tactical, victor, and air to ground traffic.
    That initial big run spotting into that triangle/darrah area near the winery was some of the most complex wildland firefighting I’ve ever listened to.
    There was this key moment where one divs was kinda at his risk limit and another group sup and all these resources engaged were holding their own and didn’t want to pull back to safety zones and that subtle 10 or 15 mins of tactical push-pull was edge-of-seat for me. Lots of addresses given so I could look at exactly where the resources were on google earth, and a lot of description given by the ASM and Helco and ground contacts directing air support, so again, easy to look at google earth and see what they were working with.
    Gnarly fire, gnarly gnarly setup of terrain and WUI. Holy crap.


    Sunday evening I was interested to listen to the ASM lining up a gang of tankers in high orbit, waiting for helicopters to time out or go for fuel, then the plan was to gang-hunt spots with like 4 or 5 tankers in tandem. It was pretty fucking spectacular honestly.

  6. #181
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    When I was in, one year the refresher covered a WUI nightmare outside Spokane, and I was just like “no way do I want any part of that kind of mess”…and it was significantly less big and chaotic than what’s been going on in Cal in recent seasons.
    My ICT4 simulation training was a Cal setup like this, with lots of wui and lots of engines in tangly neighborhoods and lots of aircraft, and I’ll never forget being pretty overmatched by the chessboard. And again, significantly less wild than what’s been happening of late.
    I’m amazed at these firefights. It’s bananas what they’re contending with.

  7. #182
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    ^ agree, crazy complex. My neighbor just got back from fighting Oak, gave me a download.

    Humidity much higher today here in Tahoe.
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  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by east or bust View Post
    So is the smoke we have on the SRP blowing southeast from the Moose fire? Vis pretty bad today, reminiscent of last week.
    Mostly CA I think. It all depends on the wind direction. Sunday night when the wind shifted out of the north, that came from Salmon. I don't really know what happens more down towards IF. Up here, almost every night the wind shifts out of the north or north west. Late morning it shifts back out of of the south and/or south west. During the day, it's mostly from the CA fires. I had to go to IF today and noticed that the vis is worse today that it has been all week up here. It's strange, at night, when the wind shifts out of the north, you can see the layer of smoke coming down the Lemhi valley then over towards Centennials with that orangy hue in the late sunset.

  9. #184
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    oregon-man-who-started-wildfires-ends-up-tied-to-tree-by-locals


    Perfect

    “An ambulance crew was asked to respond due to some injuries that the suspect apparently received from falling down."
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  10. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
    oregon-man-who-started-wildfires-ends-up-tied-to-tree-by-locals


    Perfect

    “An ambulance crew was asked to respond due to some injuries that the suspect apparently received from falling down."
    Absolutely. I hope none of the locals broke their hands when the guy fell down.

  11. #186
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    ^ lol

    Kind of curious about the actions of the BLM employee that reported him.

  12. #187
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    Saw this a couple days ago and forgot to put it in here until I saw that link up there.

    100 year old artillery being blown up by wildfire seems less than ideal.

    Extraordinary scenes on the Italian/Slovenian border near Monfalcone, where brush fires are sweeping across the old WW1 battlefields. Slovenian media are reporting that WW1 UXOs can be heard exploding in the fires, and bomb-disposal teams have been sent to the area. #WW1
    For those wondering about the Kras/Carso, it’s a much-neglected battlefield where >200,000 Italians and Austro-Hungarians were killed in fighting between May 1915 and October 1917.
    https://twitter.com/masaccio60/statu...29798797369345

  13. #188
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    Did not engage. Stuck to protocol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    ^ lol

    Kind of curious about the actions of the BLM employee that reported him.

  14. #189
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    An impressive picture from yesterday's standing wheat fire in W2. All fire units from four cities (off duty personnel included) were called out in addition to calls going out to all farmers with tractors, discs and water trucks who were willing and able to help:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


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  15. #190
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    McKinney Fire west of Yreka not looking super good this morning. Went from 0 to 18K acres overnight. Will be an interesting and tense weekend here in the Siskiyou's.

    Edit: WEST of Yreka!
    Last edited by donutlynx; 07-30-2022 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Directionally-challenged

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by donutlynx View Post
    McKinney Fire east of Yreka not looking super good this morning. Went from 0 to 18K acres overnight. Will be an interesting and tense weekend here in the Siskiyou's.
    West of Y-town, but yeah. Rugged country.

  17. #192
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    Chad Hanson gets guest editorial space in NYT

    The Case Against Commercial Logging in Wildfire-Prone Forests
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/30/o...-sequoias.html

    Heavy on hyperbole, light on facts.
    When the Oak fire swept through more than 10,000 acres southwest of Yosemite National Park last weekend, it burned through forests where widespread logging, including commercial thinning, accelerated in recent decades. Much of the forest canopy had been removed, exposing the remaining vegetation to more direct sunlight and creating hotter, drier and windier conditions that favor the spread of flames.

    But when the blaze reached the area hit by the Ferguson fire of 2018, it slowed to burning about 1,000 acres a day. The previous fire had left less available kindling such as dry leaves, pine needles, twigs and saplings on the forest floor.

    The public has fretted about the threat that the Oak fire, which has burned over 19,000 acres and is less than 50 percent contained, poses to the famed Mariposa giant sequoia grove in Yosemite. One of the logging industry’s allies in Congress, Representative Scott Peters, Democrat of California, is trying to exploit the concern about giant sequoias, a species that depends on wildfires to effectively reproduce, to promote a series of sweeping commercial logging measures and environmental rollbacks under the guise of wildfire management.

    The truth is that logging activities tend to increase, not decrease, extreme fires, by reducing the windbreak effect that denser forests have, for example, and by bringing in highly combustible invasive grasses that are spread by logging machinery.
    Yet federal land agencies, like the U.S. Forest Service and National Park Service, are under significant political pressure to conduct commercial logging operations that benefit timber companies but tend to exacerbate overall fire severity. In December 2018, President Donald Trump issued an executive order directing the Forest Service and the Interior Department to prioritize and expand commercial logging operations on public lands, targeting mature and old trees and forests with chain saws and bulldozers.

    Yosemite National Park subsequently began an unprecedented commercial logging program, with the park’s superintendent, Cicely Muldoon, agreeing in August 2021 to initiate projects on over 2,000 acres of forest in the Yosemite Valley area under the auspices of thinning, with no prior public notice, comment opportunity or environmental analysis of impacts.

    That meant that as visitors arrived in Yosemite National Park this spring, they were met with a jarring sight in a crown jewel of the nation’s beloved national park system. Fully loaded logging trucks roared along the roads as commercial logging crews felled countless mature trees — some of them over five feet in diameter — and hauled them to lumber mills and power plants where they’d be burned in the Sierra Nevada foothills. That logging was then temporarily halted in early July by a lawsuit led by one of us and filed by the Earth Island Institute.

    The effects were not limited to increasing the risk of more intense wildfires. Groups of giant dinosaurlike logging machines called feller-bunchers were also clear-cutting ecologically vital patches of forest, upon which many kinds of native wildlife, such as woodpeckers and bluebirds, depend for their survival.

    Then, in June, a group of House Democrats and Republicans aligned with the logging industry and led by Representative Kevin McCarthy and several others introduced the deceptively named Save Our Sequoias Act. The act would curtail environmental laws, facilitate commercial logging of mature and old-growth trees and hasten postfire clear-cut logging in giant sequoia groves in Yosemite National Park, Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Park and national forests. In a letter dated June 17, over 80 environmental groups strongly opposed this destructive logging bill, for which its sponsors are trying to gather additional support in Congress.
    Federal land agencies like the Forest Service and scientists funded by this agency have promoted logging for decades, dubbing it wildfire management or biomass thinning. The Forest Service is even in the commercial logging business, selling trees to private logging companies and keeping the revenue for its budget. In a case that involved Earth Island Institute, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit warned that the Forest Service has a “substantial financial interest,” in logging, one that creates bias regarding wildfire science.

    In fact, a large and growing body of scientific research and evidence shows that these logging practices are making things worse. Last fall over 200 scientists and ecologists, including us, warned the Biden administration and Congress that logging activities such as commercial thinning reduce the cooling shade of the forest canopy and change a forest’s microclimate in ways that tend to increase wildfire intensity.

    Logging emits three times as much carbon dioxide into the atmosphere per acre as wildfire alone. Most of the tree parts unusable for lumber — the branches, tops, bark and sawdust from milling — are burned for energy, sending large amounts of carbon into the atmosphere. In contrast, wildfire releases a surprisingly small amount of the carbon in trees, less than 2 percent. Logging in U.S. forests is now responsible for as much annual greenhouse gas emissions as burning coal.

    Worryingly, the Biden administration announced in January a proposal to spend $50 billion of taxpayer money to log as much as 50 million acres of U.S. forests over the next decade, again using the wildfire management narrative as a justification. Under this plan, which congressional backers are attempting to enact in piecemeal fashion in different legislative packages — including a wildfire and drought package passed by the House on Friday and the new climate and tax deal in the Senate — most of the logging would occur on public forests, including national forests and national parks.

    The president and Congress must instead increase forest protections from logging to reduce carbon emissions and allow intact forests to absorb more of the excess carbon dioxide in our atmosphere. A failure to do so will put countless species at risk, worsen global warming and increase threats of wildfire to vulnerable towns. Current logging subsidies should be redirected into programs to directly help communities become fire safe.

    Such policies could have prevented the loss of over 100 homes in the Oak fire. After all, fires occur in forests, as they have done for millenniums. Assuming otherwise is like living at the coast and expecting no hurricanes. We need to help communities prepare.

  18. #193
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    I get kind of bent when people claim logging “prevent wildfires.” Bullshit.

    Edit: by logging, I mean commercial logging, not thinning projects.

  19. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by donutlynx View Post
    McKinney Fire east of Yreka not looking super good this morning. Went from 0 to 18K acres overnight. Will be an interesting and tense weekend here in the Siskiyou's.
    Let’s see if this Twitter link works.
    https://twitter.com/wildland_zko/sta...29920570753024


  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    I get kind of bent when people claim logging “prevent wildfires.” Bullshit.

    Edit: by logging, I mean commercial logging, not thinning projects.
    I agree. Only way to make that stick is if all the fuel is clear cut and the slash mulched over huge areas. Which would violate several land use laws…

    At the same time, it’s a stretch to say logging makes wildfire worse, esp in select cut situations

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    At the same time, it’s a stretch to say logging makes wildfire worse, esp in select cut situations
    Agreed.

  22. #197
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    Wildfire 2022

    I’ve seen presentations on rx burning in splats after the commercial harvest to remove the debris left behind.

    CH is a gaslighting POS.
    Last edited by bodywhomper; 07-30-2022 at 04:46 PM.

  23. #198
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    Yes. Matrix thinning and selection harvest can (and usually do) reduce fire hazard after the slash is consumed w/ Rx fire. Depends (of course) on the silvicultural treatment/prescription design and timing of addressing the increase in surface fuel load, among other things.

  24. #199
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    Holy Cat Shit; the Mckinney fire's up to 40k acres and roaring.

  25. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    An impressive picture from yesterday's standing wheat fire in W2. All fire units from four cities (off duty personnel included) were called out in addition to calls going out to all farmers with tractors, discs and water trucks who were willing and able to help:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Wheatfire.jpg 
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ID:	422711
    Impressive is not the first word that came to mind. Terrifying is more apt I think
    Can you imagine being a turn of 20th century wheat farmer and see that coming at you?

    Right now it’s 97 here in my corner of Paradise, the wind is blowing and the clouds are booming. Hopefully this brings rain, not fire

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