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Thread: Wildfire 2022

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    Fuck Chad Hanson
    Guy sounds like a top-tier douchebag.

  2. #127
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    Last year some academics tried to bring him down a rung or two. I’m not sure if it worked. He’s on way too many NGO boards.

    Quoting an astute observation on Twitter: “The groups [aka chad hanson] suing yosemite have issues with process (NEPA). But deep down they disagree that people had and should have an important role in creating nature and prefer that lands evolve without the influence of native peoples. This is the core issue. Everything else is secondary.”

  3. #128
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    Been getting some rain in northern New Mexico, hope that brings some significant mitigation to the season.

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Group files lawsuit over logging in Yosemite. NPS describes it as a thinning project. The group calls it clear cutting.
    https://www.fresnobee.com/news/calif...262477057.html
    I saw some pics with big stumps and trucks with big logs. I thought thinning is supposed to leave the large mature trees. The big stumps were surround by a bunch of small trees - why not take those instead if the goal is thinning for fire intensity reduction?

    eta: that article describes an argument about 20 inch or 12 inch diameter trees. The pics I saw looked like 2-5 foot diameter logs.
    10/01/2012 Site was upgraded to 300 baud.

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShortLong View Post
    I saw some pics with big stumps and trucks with big logs. I thought thinning is supposed to leave the large mature trees. The big stumps were surround by a bunch of small trees - why not take those instead if the goal is thinning for fire intensity reduction?

    eta: that article describes an argument about 20 inch or 12 inch diameter trees. The pics I saw looked like 2-5 foot diameter logs.
    Locally thinning projects make exceptions for sick trees, mistletoe and large diameter trees in close proximity to other large diameter trees. Sometimes there are also exceptions to promote different types of tree growth. Locally we don't have much aspen so large ponderosa shading aspen will also get cut.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_B View Post
    Locally thinning projects make exceptions for sick trees, mistletoe and large diameter trees in close proximity to other large diameter trees. Sometimes there are also exceptions to promote different types of tree growth. Locally we don't have much aspen so large ponderosa shading aspen will also get cut.
    Aye. If that's what they are doing, carry on. Little sense in leaving a weak tree, especially given its usefulness as wood products. I imagine the YNP forests are pretty far out of balance after 150 years fire suppression.

  7. #132
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    They're also taking standing dead.
    The picture in the article captioned "Logging machiner . . . " shows extremely dense forest beyond the logged area.
    Mind you, I'm not taking sides on this issue--I don't know nearly enough about it.

    I was walking around Donner Lake the other day--the Ponderosa and Jeffrey pine on the south facing slopes seem to be doing better than the fir on the north facing slopes--I assume the pines are m core drought tolerant. The fir forest is also much denser.

  8. #133
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    I saw a different article or video, that showed a logging truck at the park exit gate. And a cleared area in the forest somewhere with a big looking stump in foreground (though arguably it could have been an 8 inch stump with a weird perspective)

    I see the forests need to be managed for various environment and social objectives. And they conflict. And this news article gives little insight, like many. Logging in a national park definitely seems newsworthy though.

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShortLong View Post
    …Logging in a national park definitely seems newsworthy though.
    I get where you’re coming from, but consider parking lots, roads, hotels, concessions, etc. What I’m getting at is that a lot of parks are somewhat less than pristine.

  10. #135
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    Apparently, the large grove became established after native Americans were removed from the valley, their cultural burning practices were extinguished, the land manager of the area blew up a terminal moraine near the toe of the meadow, which dropped the water table by several feet, the trees encroached into the meadow, and the trees were allowed to grow and become established.

  11. #136
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    Stephen Pyne has a nice essay on wildfiretoday.com today. Pyne is, IMO, pretty much the most astute and articulate writer on wildland fire, I highly recommend reading anything he’s written.

    https://wildfiretoday.com/2022/06/20...ays-wildfires/

    A pertinent quote.
    The real threat to fire management is death by a thousand cuts, each breakdown leading to shutdowns, each partisan group extracting a concession, that together so encumber the practice that it can’t be implemented. There is always something that can cause a prescribed burn to be shuttered. There is no equivalent mechanism to make up the loss.

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    Stephen Pyne has a nice essay on wildfiretoday.com today. Pyne is, IMO, pretty much the most astute and articulate writer on wildland fire, I highly recommend reading anything he’s written.

    https://wildfiretoday.com/2022/06/20...ays-wildfires/

    A pertinent quote.
    Thanks for posting the Pyne article. You have brought a lot of good attention to his writing and analyses.

    Here's the NPS summary webpage about their biomass clearing project that Hanson let-it-all-burn-in-a-blaze-of-glory is suing: https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/nature/biomass.htm. It looks like part of the project is biomass reduction along roadways and the other part is improvements to previously scenic vistas.

    In the vain of the Pyne essay, here's a pertinent quote:
    The biomass project is focused on removing mostly dead and down logs and branches to create fuel breaks along road corridors. This creates safe places for fire fighters to conduct prescribed fire or hold wildfire... These smaller diameter trees are “ladder fuels” that push fire into the canopy and can push fire into the tops of trees and promote “crown fires.” Without intervention, the intense fuel loading and dense ladder fuels makes it impossible for fire fighters to restore fire as a natural process.

  13. #138
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    ^ I wasn’t aware of that Hanson guy before you posted about him, but he pisses me off.

    The report on the escaped Rx fires that caused the Calf Canyon/Hermit Peak fire is out. Interesting observation on the scarceness of subject matter experts. I was wondering about that upthread.

    As expected, it looks like the pooch got screwed.
    https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.town...95847d.pdf.pdf

    Executive Summary
    The Gallinas Watershed Prescribed Fire, Las Dispensas Unit, is located on the Santa Fe National Forest Pecos- Las Vegas Ranger District in New Mexico. Test fire ignitions began the morning of April 6, 2022. The test fire was determined successful at 1234, and ignitions continued. The prescribed fire was declared a wildfire (Hermit’s Peak Fire) about four hours later. On May 10, 2022, USDA Forest Service Chief Randy Moore launched a review team to conduct a Declared Wildfire Review of the incident.
    In addition to examining the parameters set forth in the Interagency Prescribed Fire Planning and Implementation Procedures Guide (PMS 484) for Declared Wildfire Review, the team was asked to provide (Appendix A):
    • A description of the overall fuels and wildfire situation on the Santa Fe National Forest and the overall context within which these events took place;
    • An assessment of the planning and analysis related to the Gallinas Prescribed Fire Wildland Urban Interface (WUI) project, including the purpose and need for treatment as well as factors that contributed to the overall design and sequencing of planned treatments;
    • An assessment of the prescribed fire planning specific to the Las Dispensas Prescribed Fire;
    • An assessment of the information related to fuel conditions, weather and other key factors that
    informed decisions leading up to the implementation of the Las Dispensas Prescribed Fire up until
    the declaration of the Hermit’s Peak fire on April 6, 2022; and
    • A summary of factors that contributed to the declaration, along with proposed recommendations to
    improve policies, protocols or performance.
    In order to maintain and restore existing fire-dependent ecosystems, prescribed fires are often conducted in areas absent of recent fire history. These areas typically have higher densities of vegetation and concentrations of downed woody debris, creating a situation where the ecosystem is heavily departed from the natural range of variability within the fire regime.
    The review team found that the personnel assigned to the Las Dispensas Prescribed Fire followed their approved prescribed fire plan. There was confidence they were within the approved prescription limits, and they had a plan to suppress the fire and cease ignitions if the prescription parameters were exceeded. However, a post-prescribed fire analysis of fuel and weather revealed that the implementation was occurring under much drier conditions than were recognized. Persistent drought, limited overwinter precipitation, less than average snowpack, fine fuel accumulation—post mechanical treatment, and increased heavy fuel loading after fireline preparation all contributed to increasing the risk of fire escape.
    Competing obligations limit the ability of the workforce to prioritize and focus on prescribed fire projects. Increasing agency goals for prescribed fire treatments and, in this case, expectations from the forest, district and the Burn Boss to begin catching-up after 2 years of delays due to government shutdowns, a global pandemic, and Mexican Spotted Owl regulations have led to unrealistic expectations. These expectations, coupled with the opportunity to implement during a narrow window when the crew was available, smoke dispersion was good and the prescribed fire area was forecasted to be in prescription, led to acceptance of unforeseen risk.
    The prescribed fire plan appeared to be complete and in compliance with current policy. However, the fire environment is in constant flux. The environmental conditions in which the plan was executed generated unforeseen challenges. Training of prescribed fire personnel is highly weighted toward developing and implementing the plan to ensure adherence to policy.
    While innovative tools associated with robust analysis of the fire environment have been developed and are readily available, they are not routinely internalized into the planning and implementation process of prescribed fire. Training and education efforts are often outdated and do not incorporate the latest tools or the latest fire science available to consider the fire environment (fuels, topography, climate, and weather) when developing and implementing prescribed fire plans. There are very few subject matter experts (SMEs) with the skillsets associated with robust analysis and interpretation of potential fire behavior and weather patterns. In addition, the number of specialists is diminishing due to some of the requirements needed to attain qualifications. Furthermore, these SMEs are not always readily available due to conflicting needs within their fire management positions. Although essential, these skills are not currently required as elements in prescribed fire qualifications or position descriptions for fire management employees.
    This report begins with the setting in which the incident took place, followed by a narrative chronology of events. The team analyzed both planning and implementation elements of the operation. There are findings and lessons learned in the areas of: weather, fire behavior and fuels, communications, prescribed fire planning and design, and other socio-political influences. The team makes recommendations in these areas as well as in the prescribed fire plan implementation process, (fire) qualifications, capacity building and organizational learning.

  14. #139
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    Just popping in for the Hanson pile-on. Not a fan.
    Last edited by donutlynx; 06-21-2022 at 10:44 PM. Reason: posterity

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    The report on the escaped Rx fires that caused the Calf Canyon/Hermit Peak fire is out. Interesting observation on the scarceness of subject matter experts. I was wondering about that upthread.

    As expected, it looks like the pooch got screwed.
    [iurl]https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/santafenewmexican.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/b5/9b5befaa-f189-11ec-ad7d-9f8130501376/62b203495847d.pdf.pdf[/url]
    If you’re interested in this sort of thing, here’s a nice summary of the elements of the report on the escaped Rx fires that led to the largest wildfire recorded in NM.
    https://wildfiretoday.com/2022/06/22...its-peak-fire/

  16. #141
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    ^^^ So if I read this right, USFS
    1. Waited too long after prep work to burn, and excessive fuels built up
    2. Ran the burn at the ragged edge of acceptable RH values
    3. Tested their Rx on an area not indicative of the overall area
    4. Measured RH with a poorly calibrated instrument
    5. Contingency resources were 70 miles away

  17. #142
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    I read the analysis article very late at night. Didn’t it state that the rx was written at a different fuel load? Also, heavy fuels along the containment lines were as a result of develop of the lines, which seems like a technique thing. And pressure to light it up, which seems similar to a heuristic trap.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBS View Post
    ^^^ So if I read this right, USFS
    1. Waited too long after prep work to burn, and excessive fuels built up
    2. Ran the burn at the ragged edge of acceptable RH values
    3. Tested their Rx on an area not indicative of the overall area
    4. Measured RH with a poorly calibrated instrument
    5. Contingency resources were 70 miles away
    Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    I read the analysis article very late at night. Didn’t it state that the rx was written at a different fuel load? Also, heavy fuels along the containment lines were as a result of develop of the lines, which seems like a technique thing. And pressure to light it up, which seems similar to a heuristic trap.
    Yep

  19. #144
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    Wildfire 2022

    I have only had a few rx burn experiences, and none through a fire agency or at the scale that USFS operates. My first was at a research station. The burn boss, who ran the station, reduced the units by 2/3 because RH in 2/3 of the units were lower than forecasted when he was making that morning consideration and he was uncertain if RH would remain in the RX. He also shared about a previous burn where he felt pressured to light it up even though they were a little outside the RX (due to low RH) because it was an important burn with lots of air quality researchers and instrumentation present. He and his team spent 2 days during and after the burn (successfully) chasing spot fires.

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    I get where you’re coming from, but consider parking lots, roads, hotels, concessions, etc. What I’m getting at is that a lot of parks are somewhat less than pristine.
    And the traffic and human encroachment that there is in the most popular parks is probably more impactful than clearing out some trees.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  21. #146
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    Good year to be a jumper in AK it looks like. More out on fires in there than available or committed in the entire lower 48.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    Good year to be a jumper in AK it looks like. More out on fires in there than available or committed in the entire lower 48.
    I saw this picture/post yesterday on Facebook of the racks at FBK, only one jump suit hanging.
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    This is the standby shack at the Alaska Smokejumper base outside Fairbanks. The near empty suit up racks indicates how up to 150 smokejumpers (with help from jumpers from the lower 48), are deployed to some of the 100 fires now burning in Alaska.

  23. #148
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    Rice Fire in Nevada County got going pretty good yesterday. Waiting on the morning report, hopefully this thing doesn’t burn until the fall.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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    Big helicopter heading into the Rice Fire area just now. Glad there wasn’t much else going on yesterday. They were able to have a pretty big air attack yesterday…. And on the same day, Beale AFB completely a successful rx burn in grasslands maybe 20 miles away.

    Click image for larger version. 

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