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  1. #1
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    going back to race boots...dumb idea?

    I've been eyeing some race boots recently...feel like an alcoholic walking by bars that aren't on his way home.

    I switched out of a race shell years ago because I was tired of having completely frozen toes any day that the temp was below 25, and I haven't really regretted it. I was pleasantly surprised at the performance of the new boots (Head Vectors--had been in Head World Cups), and they're way warmer. But I've come across a few really good deals on new boots from a few seasons ago (Salomon X-Max might be my favorites) and have been thinking about getting a pair to use on days when I'm actually skiing (as opposed to standing around watching kids ski). Without major bootfitting work, how bad will it be going from a comfy 100mm last boot to things that are 95mm? (The last is my main concern--I wonder if all these years in a wider boot will make it tougher to tolerate a tight fit again.)
    [quote][//quote]

  2. #2
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    I too have spent a fair bit of time standing around watching kids ski. I thought I was over race boots and spent some seasons in a 110 flex performance boot (Salomon falcon 10 a number of years back). While comfy, they weren’t what I liked for skiing.

    Went back to head raptors, while still not a plug, I like them so much more than the falcons. Currently in the RS 140. 98mm last at 27.5. Comfy enough after a bit of shell work to make room for my weird toes.

    For reference, I ski in WA, so lots of soft and mixed conditions, but I like to arc almost as much as pow skiing, these work great for me and I don’t see myself going away from this type of boot any time soon.

    Plus I can out boot-ski all these grip walk folks. Bonus.
    Our great works of human enterprise will fade away with time. The mountain will endure. ~nps

  3. #3
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    Shit, I forgot about those fucking slippery soles. Even w vibram I almost busted my ass falling on blue ice while trying to walk across a starting area. Hmm.
    But you seem to be encouraging this purchase. I guess worst case is they don't work out, so maybe just give 'em a shot.
    [quote][//quote]

  4. #4
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    grind the soles and add vibrams. Still love my plugs. It's the getting them on and off in cold weather that has pushed me away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If I lived in WA, Oft would be my realtor. Seriously.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    I've been eyeing some race boots recently...feel like an alcoholic walking by bars that aren't on his way home.

    I switched out of a race shell years ago because I was tired of having completely frozen toes any day that the temp was below 25, and I haven't really regretted it. I was pleasantly surprised at the performance of the new boots (Head Vectors--had been in Head World Cups), and they're way warmer. But I've come across a few really good deals on new boots from a few seasons ago (Salomon X-Max might be my favorites) and have been thinking about getting a pair to use on days when I'm actually skiing (as opposed to standing around watching kids ski). Without major bootfitting work, how bad will it be going from a comfy 100mm last boot to things that are 95mm? (The last is my main concern--I wonder if all these years in a wider boot will make it tougher to tolerate a tight fit again.)
    The Salomon X-Max isn't a race shell and is nominally only 98mm in a 26.5, not that hard to get to fit even most wider than average feet. If you're talking about real plug boots with 92-95mm lasts, success depends on your feet and who your bootfitter is, but it likely won't be a one-stop deal.

    This year I've gotten my 117mm wide feet into a Redster CS 96mm boot (sort of a higher volume Redster STI) with a bunch of work and it skis phenomenally (Professional foam liner helps a bunch). I wear Lenz heated socks with them most days, so no problem with the cold. Slippery soles? Yeah, kind of dangerous in certain conditions, but I have a set of Cat Tracks in the car just in case . . .

  6. #6
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    You're right, obviously it's the S-Race shells that are Salomon's true race boots. But FWIW even Salomon calls these things race boots (from Sally description: "top level race boot incorporating Twinframe technology to combine superior transmission and power with unmatched foot wrapping for maximum on-piste performance"), and I have them listed at 95mm last.
    edit: OK, this is really strange, they're listed at 98mm everywhere except in the one review I read, where it says 95mm. And then if I look at the same review on my laptop it goes back to 98 (on mobile it shows 95). So I guess it was an error that they somehow corrected.
    Anyway, maybe this is the boot I should go to, and not a true race shell. But then would it really offer me anything different? 98mm last vs 100, and same listed flex (I know the Head 130 might be different than Sally's, but I bet they're pretty close). I did find those 170 flex Redsters for cheap, so...if I hit 210 lbs and qualify for a WC race I think those would make sense!
    [quote][//quote]

  7. #7
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    Really strange to have these listed at 95 only on mobile:

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    [quote][//quote]

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki View Post
    Really strange to have these listed at 95 only on mobile:

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    That boot is a X-Lab, not a X-Max.

    That is a sub 98mm last and likely has non-DIN soles that would need to planed and routed, or at least routed to ski.

  9. #9
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    going back to race boots...dumb idea?

    I have this version of the Salomon X Max. 98mm last. It is not a really stiff 130 boot, let alone a plug flex. I made a few mods to stiffen them up and I’m happy with the way they ski and I really like the fit.


    The product names from their boot line cir 2017-2020 are really confusing. The carbon version of the boot, that I believe shared the same mold, the blue one, was a lot stiffer out of the box.
    Last edited by Self Jupiter; 01-15-2022 at 07:37 AM.

  10. #10
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    I have the S-Max 130 and I’m pretty darn sure it’s a 98mm last.

  11. #11
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    what problem are you tring to solve with your current boots?

    or are you just board and trying to try boot non-monogamy? (nothing wrong with that)


  12. #12
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    I would respond with many of the "Women's World Cup" type plugs I have skied in but only in Tech Talk.
    The market is dominated by fat skis largely because young toughs want what they see in videos: organ donors hucking into heliski bowls. -Seth Masia

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by One (+) Sentence View Post
    That boot is a X-Lab, not a X-Max.
    So what are you saying? My difficulty with words that are three letters long will keep me from being able to go full race stock?? Worms in my brain. Now I understand why the last numbers weren't matching--I was googling a different fucking boot. I am looking at the Labs, not Max.

    That is a sub 98mm last and likely has non-DIN soles that would need to planed and routed, or at least routed to ski.
    I know. Been there before.

    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    what problem are you tring to solve with your current boots?

    or are you just board and trying to try boot non-monogamy? (nothing wrong with that)
    Dunno about bored, but I'm doing a little bit more than innocent flirting at this point. I guess I should just go ahead and get them--last year I paid more than these things cost for a day of incredibly mediocre skiing at Steamboat (how come no one warned me?).
    [quote][//quote]

  14. #14
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    Race boots with boot heaters are the way to go for ripping groomers!

  15. #15
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    Yeah, have seen so many racers/coaches recently rocking that setup. Heated socks.
    [quote][//quote]

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by One (+) Sentence View Post
    That boot is a X-Lab, not a X-Max.

    That is a sub 98mm last and likely has non-DIN soles that would need to planed and routed, or at least routed to ski.
    I checked and they are supposed to be ISO 5355, which I believe means they're compatible with regular DIN rated bindings (whatever the ISO). No?

    I'm not asking because I went ahead and ordered those X-Labs or anything. That would have been an impulsive and premature thing to do.
    [quote][//quote]

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by neutrinoone View Post
    Race boots with boot heaters are the way to go for ripping groomers!
    How do you fit them in with a race fit? That was always my dilemma.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If I lived in WA, Oft would be my realtor. Seriously.

  18. #18
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by oftpiste View Post
    How do you fit them in with a race fit? That was always my dilemma.
    I use Sidas in my Atomic Race Boots. The heating element is paper thin. You cut a hole in the liner near the Arch run the wire from there toward the heel then up and out of the boot. The battery then sits on the booster strap on the outside of the leg. My feet were numb before using these. Never going back to unheated race boots! Here is the do it yourself vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0dx-OAJps4

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperGaper View Post
    I would respond with many of the "Women's World Cup" type plugs I have skied in but only in Tech Talk.
    AKA Tech Talk you fkn Jong!

    Cmon brother, you have been around long enough

    You figured it out but Xmax arent race boots, I love mine but you have seen first hand my Utah bred style is about from racey as it gets with out going gorilla steez
    Last edited by Woodsy; 01-17-2022 at 02:31 PM.

  20. #20
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    Interesting. Looks like you have to use their footbed? Or can you apply the element to a custom footbed?

    Quote Originally Posted by neutrinoone View Post
    I use Sidas in my Atomic Race Boots. The heating element is paper thin. You cut a hole in the liner near the Arch run the wire from there toward the heel then up and out of the boot. The battery then sits on the booster strap on the outside of the leg. My feet were numb before using these. Never going back to unheated race boots! Here is the do it yourself vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0dx-OAJps4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If I lived in WA, Oft would be my realtor. Seriously.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by oftpiste View Post
    Interesting. Looks like you have to use their footbed? Or can you apply the element to a custom footbed?
    No - any footbed. I use Aline Footbeds. It comes with a very thin footbed tape/cover to go over the heating element so you don't catch it with your socks while putting on the boot.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
    AKA Tech Talk you fkn Jong!

    Cmon brother, you have been around long enough

    You figured it out but Xmax arent race boots, I love mine but you have seen first hand my Utah bred style is about from racey as it gets with out going gorilla steez
    Thank you, I suppose my response was a bit too nuanced to comprehend. And yes, it was made worse when the X-Max was presented as a "race" boot. See you all over in TECH TALK soon!
    The market is dominated by fat skis largely because young toughs want what they see in videos: organ donors hucking into heliski bowls. -Seth Masia

  23. #23
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    Mar 2009
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    How about 98 mm club/detuned race boot with 130 flex or more ? Most of the benefit of a plug boot without the punishment . I have found if I spend some time around the heel/achilles area to really lock it down the front part of the feet can be left to roam a bit without too much loss of performance as long as the ball of the four is slipping side to side.

  24. #24
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    You rang?

    Do it.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  25. #25
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    going back to race boots...dumb idea?

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    ^you know what ya want, but your approach is dumb AF. Do not buy crap on sale. Here’s a few pointers not mentioned.

    •92 mm plugs are not all equal

    •Dalbello seems to run bigger, Dobermanns are snugger

    •Shave a few millimeters from the Zeppa & it’s a whole size bigger feeling

    •Lange/Rossi liners are thinner & compress your feet lesser for better warmth

    •Learn to sew, you can gain a few mm by removing foam & restitching

    •Have a bail out boot, Lupo with an intuition liner works awesome in -20

    •Dont over tighten the laces

    •Tons of baby powder

    •Drymax ankle socks are thin for cold days

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    ^thats a Rossi liner in a Dalbello GS ~160 flex, good to down to -5 ; Dobermann above 15 degrees.

    *Tip the fitter well!

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