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  1. #51
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    Right, don't ruin things by having certain expectations.

    And BTW, to be clear, I think different approaches can work with different kids. My point on ski lessons is I think it's reasonable to try on your own and see how it goes. If you are able to avoid parent/child stresses (stay calm, always!) then it is definitely possible it can work well.
    [quote][//quote]

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcdawg View Post
    Congratulations! Skiing with your kids is super fun, and one of my all time favorite things to do.
    - Harness: A lucky bums harness won't help them ski, but it will allow you to take them on more challenging terrain if need be. We parked at MJ, skied the WP side and there was no easy way down back to the car and this really helped. Plus, they can carry your sandwiches
    .
    This Harness is helpful when first skiing using the straps but helpful for a few years after for the handle.
    You can help them get on lift easier and help pick them up when they fall, turn them around, adjust, all kinds of things.
    Handles for kids while skiing. My kid is about to turn 8 and last weekend was the first time with out it.

  3. #53
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    Making your kid a grom

    Dexter with a pretty good observation that I noticed as well: they learn by following (and by playing.) At maybe 8 or so I noticed that my daughter had a habit of mimicking the line my son was taking (who is almost 3 years older) exactly. Like mirroring every turn location, shape and speed right behind him, including airs. Iím sure that was huge for her. It was cool. She would lock in behind me too sometimes, which was an amazing feeling (though carried a lot of responsibility in my mind.)

    Playing is important. They need to fuck around a lot, so they can try things, screw up, and try again. For example, you learn a lot about how to use the edges of your skis when you are a little kid trying to wrestle your sibling while shooting down a groomer at high speed. My kids always did this thing where my daughter stands between my sonís skis, he hugs her, and they rip runs and jumps riding what they call ďdoubles.Ē GS turns, moguls, whatever, and at speed. They still do it. Itís hilarious, and kind of insane, but Iím sure it built a set of skills that I donít even see.

    But again, thereís a number of us saying the same thing: as a family, you ski. No question, no changing it. Itís like pizza night or bath time or whatever.

    For us, skiing and mtn biking were like church is for some folks. You go. You just go. Pretty much every weekend and most vacations. You go.

    I donít think weíve taken a vacation without skiing, biking or surfing since the kids were about 4. That is what my wife and I love. Our kids grew up with that and they think itís normal - itís just the way it works. And for our family it is.

    Interestingly, I was serious soccer player till I was done with college. My kids grew up playing, and for many years it was just assumed they would go to college and play. Each bailed on that sometime in high school. They enjoyed it and were good at it but they didnít NEED it.

    They need skiing. Truly. And I believe that came from the thousands of hours together, as a family - not in ski programs or racing, though there is nothing wrong with that and it can be great - but spending time together as a family, driving to snow, on snow, afterwards. Hotel rooms, car rides, laughing together on some steep chute, fucking around on some groomer. Itís been a constant thread.

    And like some else mentioned - maybe oft or dexter - there is no heli line or powder day or epic vert that are even close to in the same vicinity as the best days with my kids. You sacrifice thousands of hours and hundreds and hundreds of ski days to get there, but I have days I will always remember with them: a powder day at highlands, the day that sublette was closed and we hiked over the ridge from thunder over and over at Jackson, a lift challenged day at the Boat where we had hours and hours of powder, a day at Mary Jane when they were very little that was normal except for the fact that we laughed together for about 5 straight hours, enjoying what my daughter has decided are the best fries in skiing at Copper when she was very young - all of those. Those are literally some of the best days Iíve spent on this earth.

    Teaching them on your own is awesome. Itís not because you are a better teacher. Itís because it cements the idea that you all do this together. As a group. Always.

  4. #54
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    Best of both worlds for us was skiing with ski forum buddies who also teach or use to. We teach each other's kids. Parent and kid skiing for us was ideally 90% fun and maybe 10% tips and a drill here and there. I've taught many many kids how to ski working in the ski school at the local bump back in the day. Other instructors I know all agree that kids all kids will interact differently with another teacher than they do with their parents. Some of both is the obvious answer, but how much or how little depends on the kid.

    Spouse SO definitely have a plan to put them in some lessons! That is the kid parent stress dynamic times 10..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  5. #55
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    one more observation.... as many have said here, setting expectations is really important and realizing that 'success' may not be defined by your kid becoming a top ranked collegiate racer or standing on a FWT podium. My early teen kids don't live and breathe skiing, but they like it and enjoy it, and they like going skiing with their parents. A couple seasons back, it suddenly dawned on me that we had reached a cool inflection point. We transitioned from my wife and I skiing with our kids (slowing pace, choosing runs for their level interest, always hanging back in case of a blow out) to our kids skiing with us. This was a magical moment in hindsight. You will get there soon enough!

  6. #56
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    Ice skating complements skiing very well. Our girls are skiing, but just started ice skating lessons so that they know how to do it and itís fun


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Aggressive in my own mind

  7. #57
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    i taught my kids to ski but I paid an insructor to get the grand children going,

    getting an instructor was way better they learned faster

    and besides one of my kids turned into a snow boarder
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    i taught my kids to ski but I paid an insructor to get the grand children going,

    getting an instructor was way better they learned faster

    and besides one of my kids turned into a snow boarder
    Vibes

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by oftpiste View Post
    I am actually serious. All I can say is it worked for us. Of course all kids are different, and those differences should absolutely be considered and accommodated, at least to some degree based on how you wish to function as a family. My kids were relatively 'normally' abled for which I am grateful.

    Edited to add: duh on hot chocolate, treats, candy, make it as fun as you can. Is that even a question?

    On thing that kept coming up in that thread, long ago, was "they don't want to go, they don't want to get up". So the whole family stays home. WTF? I don't think that's great, and of course that's just my .02 and worth every dime.

    If you want to be a ski family little kids are going to throw shit about it sometimes. If you want to let your 5 year old's tantrum run the show, then go ahead. It extends far beyond skiing, and it bums me out when I see parents doing this, but you do you.

    I was and remain a profoundly imperfect father. And my kids still love the fuck out of me, love skiing, will always be good at it no matter how long they stay away from it because it's in their DNA now, and ski better than 99.9% of the planet will ever hope to.

    All, as now adults, have expressed appreciation for how we did it then. A lot. Including the 0500 wakeups, cooler lunches, all of it. I got lucky for sure that they all ended up connecting with the sport. Not all will. And we had a REALLY fucking good time, that we all look back on with so much love.

    Whatevs.
    I now see what you meant. First post sounded a bit well, not fun at all.
    "boobs just make the world better really" - Woodsy

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    You do realize that two of oft's boys competed on the FWT. And the third could have.

    And they love the fuck out of him.
    I did not.
    And thatís what itís all about, the love.
    Pretty cool kids you got there.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoarhey View Post
    Ice skating complements skiing very well. Our girls are skiing, but just started ice skating lessons so that they know how to do it and itís fun


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    This!
    My daughter got on skates when we started skiing together. She loved it and still does. She actually replaced skis for the skates.

  12. #62
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    Adding another data point for skating. Started playing hockey at age 4 or 5 and first time on skis was 4th grade (10yrs old). I remember the first day taking a private lesson with my friend from hockey and we were both making parallel turns that day.


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  13. #63
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    Happy to have made my intentions more clear. Been in bed all week, ranting seems second nature at the moment.

    We really had a ton of fun, and they remember it well. I think I was coming from a functional how-to place, presuming that of course fun was the goal at the end of the day and didn't even need to be stated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzworthy View Post
    I now see what you meant. First post sounded a bit well, not fun at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If I lived in WA, Oft would be my realtor. Seriously.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzworthy View Post
    I did not.
    And that’s what it’s all about, the love.
    Pretty cool kids you got there.
    They are amazing. Thank you. More thoughts keep coming to mind....

    My kids made their successes happen for themselves. I provided ongoing opportunity, and the habit of "this is what we do" as a family (well, my ex wasn't so interested until they hit the world stage, go figure), and of course the resources and logistical support. Which was a lot!

    We pursued competitive stuff because THEY wanted to.

    I watched race parents yelling at their kids in the finish corral so many times. So fucked up. The junior freeride world was very different, thank goodness. The racing times were not their favorite, but they are glad they did it, and acknowledge how good it was for their skiing. And at some point they all decided they wanted to be be 'good' skiers.

    And again, I got really lucky in a lot of ways. They are naturally athletic, saw some some competitive success fairly early and took to the sport. I know many for whom this has not been the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If I lived in WA, Oft would be my realtor. Seriously.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickbokhoven View Post
    A couple of thoughts

    Ski passes are your friend. Donít worry if you only ski a couple of runs in a day. You wonít feel like you spent $150 for one run if you bought a single ticket. Mittens keep little fingers warm better than gloves. Hot pockets work well in jackets and gloves. You can get pretty small boot covers too if your home resort is cold. Good gear for kids makes a difference.

    One of the best pieces of advice I received was from some Eastern European grandma that was a ski instructor at Mammoth. She yelled at me in her thick accent when I had my 3 year old son between my legs and his was body was as a good as a sack of potatoes. She told me I was going to kill my back and to go get my poles and get my son on my side.

    Our daughter never learned snow plow, and instead went directly to parallel. The kids learn to be in the front of their boots, hands out front and in good body position. They have to stand up. You get to build strong leg muscles.

    k
    This.
    I used a hockey stick as well as poles (because, well you know). I never liked the idea of a harness pulling them backwards, and holding them up between your legs maybe works for the first day, but no longer. I was taught how to teach my kid by a granddad who had taught at least 4 grand kids and 3 kids.
    ďI tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.Ē
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  16. #66
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    Lots of wisdom here. I'll throw my $0.02 into the ring even if it is repetitive

    1. End while it's still fun. Kids go from full throttle to full meltdown mid run. Trust your instincts and never push them for one more run, because they'll remember being miserable instead of leaving and being sad it's over

    2. Peers. Whether it's their school friends, siblings, or ski school, they learn and perform better when surrounded by peers. You standing around on the blue while staring up at the cornice you wish you were sending your carcass off of isn't what they need.

    3. Instructors. Kids that go to school have some kind of inherent respect and will listen to teachers. You're the parent and you're not that person. That's ok. After a lesson ask the instructor what they worked on and how. Use their language for talking about things on non-ski school days. Pizza, french fries, fast hands, lead with knees, whatever. Instructors know what works for the age groups and do it daily. One instructor called it gorilla knuckles to get them back up when they fall (get feet downslope, walk your hands to the ski tips and stand). It stops them from trying the backseat standing method that makes my knee hurt just watching, and everyone jumps around and does monkey howls to encourage them to get back up. It's also the beginning of teaching gorilla steeze that leads to riding switch into the road.

    4. Everything is a lot harder for them. Muscles aren't there, body size is weird, mental capacity and reasoning, etc. Go with it.

    5. Fun. Snowball fights. Flick snow off the ski. Follow the leader, jumps, etc. etc.
    Wait, how can we trust this guy^^^ He's clearly not DJSapp

  17. #67
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    I thought I'd chime in and offer a mom's perspective. I'm not exactly sure what a grom is, but we started Andrew skiing at 5 yrs old at nearby Welch Village. We enrolled him in a seasonal program and he quickly advanced in a few years from "mouse" to "wolverine." I remember how excited he was when we got him his first poles. I think he was a "rabbit" at the time.
    Funny story that I guess I can tell now, but shortly after he got his first poles, his friend Kenny stayed over one night. We didn't have a spare bed so he and Kenny slept in the same bed. Andrew came down the next morning and was all excited because he had a dream he was using his new poles. I later heard from Kenny's mom that Kenny said Andrew was "trying to wake his pee-pee" during the night. I put 2&2 together and realized Andrew may have accidentally grabbed hold of Kenny's penis during the dream.

    Anyway, he's a very good skier now and has now graduated to going out West each winter in order to "get the goods" as he calls it.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by oftpiste View Post
    They are amazing. Thank you. More thoughts keep coming to mind....

    My kids made their successes happen for themselves. I provided ongoing opportunity, and the habit of "this is what we do" as a family (well, my ex wasn't so interested until they hit the world stage, go figure), and of course the resources and logistical support. Which was a lot!

    We pursued competitive stuff because THEY wanted to.

    I watched race parents yelling at their kids in the finish corral so many times. So fucked up.
    I think this is underrated.

    I ski raced as a kid and can't count the number of times I saw parents screaming at their kids, kids in tears, fucking awful.

    I remember promising myself I would never do that, though there were many mornings of whining and bitching about going at 5 am as I corralled my family into the car to go skiing.

    So I'm a little concerned about the title. I don't think any random kid can be "made" to do something for which they're not inclined, for which they don't develop some personal desire. And pushy parents can wreck that pretty easily. There's a difference between providing the opportunity to do stuff ( which includes a lot of being the adult) and "making" kids be something.

    At this point with the teens ending, I think I give a lot more weight to the nature over nurture than I did at the outset.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
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  19. #69
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    If you don't live where there's snow in your backyard, take your little kids 2-3-4 year-olds up to play in the snow. Sled, snowball fight, run around, stomp around in the woods. Let them get used to the cold on their faces.
    I have seen too many Seattle kids freak out from the cold when they first get to snow level. Kids should associated cold and snow with fun.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by east or bust View Post
    Adding another data point for skating. Started playing hockey at age 4 or 5 and first time on skis was 4th grade (10yrs old). I remember the first day taking a private lesson with my friend from hockey and we were both making parallel turns that day.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    There’s one major flaw with this theory: Wouldn’t this mean Canada should be dominating on the WC ski circuit? (They don’t, which pains me as a Canadian).

    Second flaw: I’ve never been good at skating, but can ski pretty well (which also pains me as a Canadian)

    Quote Originally Posted by digitaldeaths mom View Post
    I thought I'd chime in and offer a mom's perspective. I'm not exactly sure what a grom is, but we started Andrew skiing at 5 yrs old at nearby Welch Village. We enrolled him in a seasonal program and he quickly advanced in a few years from "mouse" to "wolverine." I remember how excited he was when we got him his first poles. I think he was a "rabbit" at the time.
    Funny story that I guess I can tell now, but shortly after he got his first poles, his friend Kenny stayed over one night. We didn't have a spare bed so he and Kenny slept in the same bed. Andrew came down the next morning and was all excited because he had a dream he was using his new poles. I later heard from Kenny's mom that Kenny said Andrew was "trying to wake his pee-pee" during the night. I put 2&2 together and realized Andrew may have accidentally grabbed hold of Kenny's penis during the dream.

    Anyway, he's a very good skier now and has now graduated to going out West each winter in order to "get the goods" as he calls it.
    Going to need to know what name Andrew goes by on this here forum!

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong View Post
    Thereís one major flaw with this theory: Wouldnít this mean Canada should be dominating on the WC ski circuit? (They donít, which pains me as a Canadian).

    Second flaw: Iíve never been good at skating, but can ski pretty well (which also pains me as a Canadian)



    Going to need to know what name Andrew goes by on this here forum!
    "Digitaldeath's Mom" isn't enough of a clue?
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    I think this is underrated.

    I ski raced as a kid and can't count the number of times I saw parents screaming at their kids, kids in tears, fucking awful.

    I remember promising myself I would never do that, though there were many mornings of whining and bitching about going at 5 am as I corralled my family into the car to go skiing.

    So I'm a little concerned about the title. I don't think any random kid can be "made" to do something for which they're not inclined, for which they don't develop some personal desire. And pushy parents can wreck that pretty easily. There's a difference between providing the opportunity to do stuff ( which includes a lot of being the adult) and "making" kids be something.

    At this point with the teens ending, I think I give a lot more weight to the nature over nurture than I did at the outset.
    I was a ski instructor for about 15 years before i had kids and swore I would never make my kids ski. I let them(3 kids) dictate the pace and all are grown(23,21,18) and ski relatively well. Skiing was my thing and was hoping it would become their thing as well but not all in like I was by their ages. My oldest kids still grumbles about a superbowl sunday we skied and he ended up missing a good chunk of the game when he was in maybe 4th grade. I put the older two in lessons for one session and BOTH of them revolted and said FUUUUK NO.... "We just want to ski with you dad and hit jumps" Last Sunday was an awesome session with the older two , a true bluebird day, skiing some fun terrain and gave them cold beers for the drive home.
    Outside that small point I can't even begin to complain about the people they have become.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    "Digitaldeath's Mom" isn't enough of a clue?
    Ha! Too worried about his name to have considered herís. Time to start trollingÖ

    (just kidding, thatís embarrassment enough already)

  24. #74
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    I really have no idea how to make a kid a grom.

    Nature/nuture and all that, some of these things just happen.

    Move upside and let the man go through...

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    there were many mornings of whining and bitching about going at 5 am as I corralled my family into the car to go skiing.
    I think this is a different category than performance pressure. Know you do too.

    Little kids whine and bitch about all kinds of shit, and sometimes they have to do that shit anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    If I lived in WA, Oft would be my realtor. Seriously.

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