To say anything or not?

[skifishbum]

ive gotten to the point where i dont feel obligated to say or do anything
any more than i feel the need to go down to junkie park and tell them
the dbt's said "have fun and stay clear of the needle"
or tell them about bruce berry or danny whitten
and the needle and the damage done

[Tech Tonics]

Thanks for everyone’s thoughtful replies

I did indeed say something.

Im (Facebook) friends with one of the senior guides there. I reached out to her and explained the situation and asked for the guide’s contact info.

I spoke to my friend last night. It sounds like we are all on the same page: I don’t think anyone felt attacked, and I don’t think I came off as a dick.

When we skinned past them I had felt like they were sorta mining for beta (“where are you guys headed?”) but I was just generally friendly and vague.

My friend told me this was her first time in this particular zone.

I felt kinda stupid, as the guide lists her certifications and accomplishments on her fb page and had AIARE and AMGA certs and experience guiding all over the world…experiences that I don’t have.

I’m just a crusty old dude who is ridiculously safe, I guess

I think they are going up there today to take a look around and talk about hazards

[east or bust]

If you see something say something. It doesn’t need to be a life or death situation either. Can be a “hey, this doesn’t look great for a first run. let’s warm up on something easier.” Maybe me saying that would have prevented a situation where a family member exploded their TP and assorted ligaments.

If I was doing something stupid, regardless of the activity, I’d be appreciative of someone calling me on it. As mentioned there are different ways to go about things. Generally I think I’d try to tip toe into it and maybe double down if I caught a DB attitude.

IMO it’s also worth speaking up, even about minor reservations, within your own group. If you feel like you can’t you’re probably out with the wrong people.


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[Tech Tonics]

^^
I’m certainly super selective about who I ski with. I have close friends who I mtb with, drink beers with and ski in-bounds with that I won’t go tour with, as I’m super-sensitive about being able to discuss concerns.

Maybe that’s why I only have ~4 bc ski partners in a town full of bros getting rad.

[MakersTeleMark]

I've said something that lead to a person being alive. 100% guaranteed they would be dead if I didn't.

They ended up dying a couple years later though. Sigh.

Now I don't even bother, three's just too many, except for 1 situation- when they potentially put me in risk. Then I go apeshit.

[summit]

I felt kinda stupid, as the guide lists her certifications and accomplishments on her fb page and had AIARE and AMGA certs and experience guiding all over the world…experiences that I don’t have.

I have various pieces of paper. I'm a fallible meat popsicle just like everyone else in the BC. Please love me enough to tell me when I'm fucking up.

We teach within a group that everyone's opinion matters and if you have a question or concern, experienced or no, speak up because either you will learn something or feel better. If not, find a new group. I don't think we talk a ton in the community or in classes about how to help raise concerns to other groups.

I'm glad you spoke up.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Attachment 400536

This is a pic from last winter. Not the best, but they were about 100’ below the red X.

Wtf? I would never transition anywhere on that slope.


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[AK47bp]

Sometimes girls are stupid and need mansplained.






I say this as someone who lives with 2 females and both are smarter than me (one is 6yrs old).


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[Hacksaw]

I’m just a crusty old dude who is ridiculously safe, I guess

I'm also a member of that club.....

[Wapow]

So the slope was deemed stable in the avy report and by your own assessment (had already gone big) but you felt the necessity to tell them that it was dangerous? Seems like you were butting in unnecessarily. What am i missing?

[I've seen black diamonds!]

What am i missing?

Colorado in January + teaching novices to look out for overhead hazard + basic safe travel practices.

Just because most west facing slopes are safe doesn't mean they all are (see the slide over the west side of the Eisenhower tunnel a couple years back). A guide (or anyone else) certainly could have very high confidence that this slope was safe, but if you can avoid traveling and stopping in the middle of a big slide path you should. Because why wouldn't you? And if you are teaching novices, I think a priority should be training them to spot and avoid all sorts of danger. Next time they're in a spot like that it could be deadly. Plus remote triggers from below are a serious concern in CO right now, and usually are for much of the winter.

Stated differently, what they did probably wasn't very dangerous. People get away with much worse decisions all the time. But there are some very good reasons not to do what they did.

[Bunion 2020]

^^^ well put. If it was a group doing something questionable, so be it. A class learning good travel habits? Totally different story. Glad it worked out as a positive.

[EWG]

If you see something say something. It doesn’t need to be a life or death situation either. Can be a “hey, this doesn’t look great for a first run. let’s warm up on something easier.” Maybe me saying that would have prevented a situation where a family member exploded their TP and assorted ligaments.

If I was doing something stupid, regardless of the activity, I’d be appreciative of someone calling me on it. As mentioned there are different ways to go about things. Generally I think I’d try to tip toe into it and maybe double down if I caught a DB attitude.

IMO it’s also worth speaking up, even about minor reservations, within your own group. If you feel like you can’t you’re probably out with the wrong people.


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Remember the Stevens Pass avi. Group of experts., No one said anything. Groupthink is real and very, very dangerous.

[Tech Tonics]

Exactly what “I’ve seen…” said.

Also, judging by “wapow”, I’m guessing you’re from WA state.

If you’re familiar with a maritime snow climate, you really can’t imagine how touchy the San Juans can be.

And as said above…in an introduction-style class, mitigating hazards by choosing appropriate terrain is important.

The senior guide I mentioned before went up there today to check it out and agreed: it was unnecessary risk. (Especially given the excellent skiing to the L and R of their chosen path)

[skaredshtles]

Remember the Stevens Pass avi. Group of experts., No one said anything. Groupthink is real and very, very dangerous.

And the Sheep Creek incident... that one was really sobering.

[EWG]

And the Sheep Creek incident... that one was really sobering.

This.

[Wapow]

You already said the snowpack was stable on that slope, so at best you were "informing them of best practices". Would you have done the same thing if the guide was an old guy? I ski with some young female guides. They tell me they get mansplained by "well meaning" old guys like you all the time. What does your female guide friend from the same company think of your butting in on the field day and then following up with the boss? Seems like straight up Karen shit to me, but I'll defer to your female friend for the final determination.

[Tech Tonics]

. Would you have done the same thing if the guide was an old guy? .

Without a doubt. In fact, I’d feel more comfortable approaching some crusty old dude than I would a young female guide for this very reason.

I already said that part of my hesitation was due to not wanting to seem like I was mansplaining.

[Tech Tonics]

You already said the snowpack was stable on that slope, so at best you were "informing them of best practices".

Read where myself and others have already addressed this.

THEN type.

[Tech Tonics]

Seems like straight up Karen shit to me, but I'll defer to your female friend for the final determination.

Oh I’m so glad you’ll defer to the senior guide with knowledge of the area when you’re clearly the expert.

Please read above where I said she went out to the area today and agreed they took unnecessary risks. Then type.

[summit]

mansplaining trolling karen trolling safe is safe trolling

Avalanche don't care if you got a dick or a vag.
Avalanche don't know you are an expert.
Guides aren't gods.
San Juan continental persistent slab problems are happy to remote trigger.
Low risk is not no risk. Moderate risk is not low risk. The problem might be there... the obvious avalanche path says the dragon visits on the regular... how many people to wager at once on that bet when modeling behavior?
Expose one person at a time and no picnicking in the runout.
Take the trolling to the main forum.

[Tech Tonics]

Yes. thanks summit.

[blazes_boylan]

I did indeed say something.

Glad to hear this turned out so positive. Tough situation, but good on you for saying something. Feelings have to be set aside when dealing with life and death situations.

[east or bust]

You already said the snowpack was stable on that slope, so at best you were "informing them of best practices". Would you have done the same thing if the guide was an old guy? I ski with some young female guides. They tell me they get mansplained by "well meaning" old guys like you all the time. What does your female guide friend from the same company think of your butting in on the field day and then following up with the boss? Seems like straight up Karen shit to me, but I'll defer to your female friend for the final determination.

reading comprehension fail and dick punches for you bud

[homemadesalsa]

Tech Tonic nice work in taking the time to ask the important and difficult questions in a spirit of inquiry. I don't always have the patience to do that and it backfires on me.