Wax temp discussion

[J. Barron DeJong]

Hope this isn't thread drift... what are you doing to wax in 10 minutes. I was taught by a local shop tech to get as much wax off as possible, so I try to scrape everything off then go through with a brush. It takes me at least 45 minutes for a set of skis. I use a file to sharpen my plastic scraper, hope it is doing something. Am I doing something wrong?

My current process is
- brush with brass brush
- clean with Swix Glide Wax Cleaner
- Allow to dry 15 minutes
- Brush with steel brush
- Drip on wax
- Iron in with three passes
- Allow to cool 30 minutes minimum (but I usually leave overnight)
- Scrape as much as possible with sharpened scraper
- Brush with brass brush
- Brush with nylon brush.

Probably takes me closer to 45 minutes per pair than ten. But there are steps you remove from above to s cut down on time if you aren’t as particular.

Could be as simple as
- Don’t bother cleaning
- Drip on wax
- Iron in 2-3 passes
- Cool 15 minutes
- Scrape
- Don’t bother brushing

At a minimum I’d be more inclined to go with
- Brush with brass brush to clean
- Drip on wax
- Iron in 2-3 passes
- Cool 30 minutes
- Scrape
- Brush with brass brush

(Note that brass/bronze/copper brushes are generally interchangeable)

[J. Barron DeJong]

It all went to hell when they went full metric on the packaging and instructions. metric system temp ratings

Try working through the same thermodynamics problem in metric and imperial and then try to tell me the metric system isn’t fucking fantastic

[Dexter Rutecki]

Hope this isn't thread drift... what are you doing to wax in 10 minutes. I was taught by a local shop tech to get as much wax off as possible, so I try to scrape everything off then go through with a brush. It takes me at least 45 minutes for a set of skis. I use a file to sharpen my plastic scraper, hope it is doing something. Am I doing something wrong?

No, you're right. All in it's probably 20 minutes, but the time spent just waxing (dripping on and then ironing in) is more like 10. I'm guilty of chronically underestimating how long tuning takes, which has contributed to some much later than anticipated bed times over the years. Set up ski, clean, brush, wax is probably 20 minutes.

[El Chupacabra]

Do you get the same (or similar) benefit from scrape and wax cycles if you just iron a layer of wax, let it cool, then iron again?

[CaliBrit]

Do you get the same (or similar) benefit from scrape and wax cycles if you just iron a layer of wax, let it cool, then iron again?

I’ve always kind of wondered that too. Isn’t the physics the same? If you scraped and brushed with metal brush I’d understand you may be opening other structure up to take wax. But just scrape then wax…?

[J. Barron DeJong]

Do you get the same (or similar) benefit from scrape and wax cycles if you just iron a layer of wax, let it cool, then iron again?

I’m going to say yes, because that’s Swix’s recommendation for prepping race skis.

[detrusor]

What are the hot overlays for alpine racing now that flouro is banned? I’m not seeing much….and when I put cera-f on my own skis I can hardly move in the lift line without poling


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[arild]

Definitely going to give the brass brush some more work. For spring structure, I actually used to drag 80 grit sandpaper from tip to tail. I imagined it worked, 15 years ago.

[J. Barron DeJong]

going to bed at 0200 because i had to finish those skis .... yes

im not used to arctic temperatures here so cant input much.

but brushing is tricky also which brushes???


the horse hair brush made me wonder... using this with alot of pressure and many strokes could brush out the wax... i think i have heared the horsehair brush is for cleaning the base

i have over brushed skis (also with a rotor brush not using it again)
and now i have switched to a nylon/natural vibre brush

2 to 3 full strokes per ski.... thats it

the ski might not be the fastest on the first run.... yeah thats cool with me
but not slow after 3 runs....

my 2 cents

Attachment 400550

https://www.snoli.com/produkt/snoli-...fiber/?lang=en

It’s unlikely to cause problems by over brushing. With roto-brushes you can certainly apply too much pressure, or use too high a speed and damage the base, but that’s a bit different than brushing too much.

Swix recommendation is 10-12 passes with a bronze brush after scraping (which means 10-12 strokes in one section of the ski, then move on to the next section, repeat until the whole ski is done). Number of passes here is probably a bit dependent on structure and how good a job you did scraping, but you shouldn’t be pulling up any new wax when you’re done.

Next step is 4-5 passes with a nylon brush to polish.

That’s it for normal waxes, no other brushes needed. Super hard waxes, or racing overlays may have their own specialty brushes.

ETA: that’s post wax brushing. Can use a steel brush to ‘open’ the base prior to waxing to help it accept more wax. Can use a nylon brush to help work in base cleaner. Can use a brass brush before any of that to remove debris/contamination

[Mofro261]

ok... but with horsehair-brush?

brush guide from tognar:

Ski & snowboard roto brushes with handles


Once you’ve committed to a bush type the next hurdle is determining what material you need. This is where much of the confusion lies when picking brushes. We’ll try sort out a handful of the most common brushes.


Stiff Steel-Used for refreshing base structure. An aggressive brush intended to be used sparingly through the season. Available as hand brushes only.


Steel/Fine Steel-Used to prep bases prior to waxing or as a second brush after scraping. Usually fine, soft steel bristles. Versatile and long lasting. Hand or roto.


Brass, Copper or Bronze-Used to prep bases prior to waxing. Removes oxidation, old wax and debris and revives base structure. They can also be used as first brush after scraping when applying cold waxes (e.g. blue or green). An essential brush. Hand or roto.


Nylon-Used as first brush after scraping, especially softer waxes. The bristles on these brushes are most often white, black or grey. Essential all around wax brush. Hand or roto.


Combo-A rectangular brush with brass (or copper, bronze) bristles on one end and nylon bristles on the other…two brushes in one! Lead with the end you intend to use and slight lift the following end. Best used on Nordic (cross country) skis, they require a lot of work when used on wide skis or snowboards! Hand only.


Horsehair-Used as second brush to further polish the base and break static. Also used for polishing hi-fluoro overlays. Bristle length varies (longer = softer). Hand or roto.


Soft Nylon-Used to polish hi-fluoro overlays. Also great for a final buffing of paste waxes (like Swix F4). Silky-soft nylon bristles, usually blue or black. Hand or roto.


Wildboarhair-Not joking…used as first brush after scraping, nice and stiff.


Cork-Technically not a brush but in the same category. Used to apply hi-fluoro overlays (powders and solids) by creating heat through friction and melting the wax. Hand or roto.


The intended uses listed above can and do vary, but it is a decent overview. Keep in mind that the longer the bristles of a particular material, the softer the brush (bristle diameter plays into this too but is more difficult to determine). The two essential brushes are a brass and a nylon; add a horsehair if you want some extra polish or are using overlays.


When using roto brushes be aware of the recommended drill RPM’s and use light pressure…don’t bear down. Also, safety glasses are a must and you might consider a respirator especially with hi-fluoro overlays.

[J. Barron DeJong]

ok... but with horsehair-brush?

For horsehair, I’d check what the manufacturer of your particular brush recommends. As mofro said, same material can more aggressive or gentle depending on length, and natural hair probably also depends on where on the animal it came from?

Toko wax manual says their horsehair brush is for finishing, after first using copper then nylon.

Swix catalog says to use their roto horsehair as a first brush (they don’t have a bronze roto brush, so I think this takes that place). Their horsehair hand brushes are recommended as a second brush for overlays (not general waxing) after initially brushing with a stiff nylon brush, and before finishing with soft nylon.

[SoVT Joey]

Hey, just to throw this out there, you guys are way over thinking it. I can definitely tune a ski and make them really fast, but I don’t know the last time I scraped any of my skis that don’t have a touring binding on them. I wax them, cool them, clean the edge and proceed to send it.

I wax my tech skis and scrape the shit out of them one direction with a sharp scraper and then Roto brush with a 3mm nylon.

the only time I use a brass is after a hot scrape to open the structure back up and essentially pull the pores clean.

and a green chore boy scrub pad is killer for polishing and taking rust off the edges from when you get baked the day before and forget to wipe them down.

but seriously. Don’t over think it.

oh and Tuck It is supposed to be this weekend at magic. $1000 first place prize. Hopefully bushwhacka shows up.

[stealurface831]

oh and Tuck It is supposed to be this weekend at magic. $1000 first place prize. Hopefully bushwhacka shows up.

Updates are mandatory.

[SoVT Joey]

Updates are mandatory.

Oh for sure. No questions asked.

[J. Barron DeJong]

Hey, just to throw this out there, you guys are way over thinking it. I can definitely tune a ski and make them really fast, but I don’t know the last time I scraped any of my skis that don’t have a touring binding on them. I wax them, cool them, clean the edge and proceed to send it.

I wax my tech skis and scrape the shit out of them one direction with a sharp scraper and then Roto brush with a 3mm nylon.

the only time I use a brass is after a hot scrape to open the structure back up and essentially pull the pores clean.

and a green chore boy scrub pad is killer for polishing and taking rust off the edges from when you get baked the day before and forget to wipe them down.

but seriously. Don’t over think it.

oh and Tuck It is supposed to be this weekend at magic. $1000 first place prize. Hopefully bushwhacka shows up.

Are you just waxing regularly, or doing the fiberlene/paper towel between the ski and iron trick?

Can’t imagine not scraping the wax off, and if your base has any structure, you’re not taking advantage of that if you aren’t brushing at all.

But, as I posted above, there’s plenty of ways to make it simpler or more complicated. So sure, whatever works to for you from a time/performance trade off…

[SoVT Joey]

Are you just waxing regularly, or doing the fiberlene/paper towel between the ski and iron trick?

Can’t imagine not scraping the wax off, and if your base has any structure, you’re not taking advantage of that if you aren’t brushing at all.

But, as I posted above, there’s plenty of ways to make it simpler or more complicated. So sure, whatever works to for you from a time/performance trade off…

skied those on Saturday for like 8 runs quickly. Regular drip on method. Some crap wax.

[J. Barron DeJong]

skied those on Saturday for like 8 runs quickly. Regular drip on method. Some crap wax.

OK… well… you do you!

[Shorty_J]

skied those on Saturday for like 8 runs quickly. Regular drip on method. Some crap wax.

Ok... apparently I'm doing just fine on waxing.

With all due respect, your wax might last a long time that way but it's slowing you down instead of speeding you up if you're skiing like that.

[RShea]

The lower the temperature, the less the need was for Fluoro- high fluoro especially, low fluoro was many times was good enough, but I've used some old regular Toko hydrocarbon before in cold weather very successfully (you know it is cold and the snow is drier as soon as you step on it and it makes noise and squeaks under your boot. It of course also does not make a very good snowball either.)

Graphite (due to the static problems with colder snow) and Molybdenum because it repels dirt (which is more of an issue after a melt and refreeze or warmer snow- spring) but it can still help sometimes on cold days- especially on older corn type snow. Some companies have warm graphite, and a cold graphite, others just offer graphite wax and you mix it with a temperature specific wax if you wish. Kuu is one, Swix used to have warm and cold graphite, and Dominator has a few different Graphite waxes also that I've used.

Some companies use old snow and new snow also as one very important factor- even in a universal wax. Old snow is typically much more granular and rounder and different moisture level, new snow- especially on cold days is much harsher- sharp and pointy crystals work on the ski base and wax (turn white with burn very quick without sufficient wax and preparation- especially on the edges due the turning action)....

[RShea]

What are the hot overlays for alpine racing now that flouro is banned? I’m not seeing much….and when I put cera-f on my own skis I can hardly move in the lift line without poling


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Swix and Dominator have non-fluoro overlays now that it is banned in racing settings. They both have quit making the fluoro and moved on with other options and products if you have the budget for their high end stuff.

[arild]

Tried applying just one layer of pink swix, ironing a rotal of 5 times before scraping and brass brushing. Time will tell, as it's fucking raining.

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[M_R]

Holly fucking waxing 101 through PhD, thought I knew my shit and was anal; leave it up to maggots to humble what I thought I knew

Thanks for the all the very useful and accurate info, reaffirming that I am doing most things right

Will add some of my interesting waxing tips I’ve picked up over the years that I didn’t see here that you may or may not find useful :

Wrt scrapping/brushing, if dealing with real cold temps, best to let skis cool outside at temp prior to final brushing/polishing. The cold will literally squeeze wax out of the ski. I’ve done skis indoors to what I thought was polished perfection only to see more wax come out of my polished bases filling the structure after sitting outside at -15c for an hour. The cold will contract the pores of the base squeezing wax out!

Cool tip for edge scrapping if you need razor sharp edges is to use either popsicle sticks or tongue depressors rather than a plastic scraper for the first edge passes. Wood is softer and will not dull the edge like plastic can and you don’t fuck up the plastic scraper while you’re at it.

Oh and having different thickness plastic scrapers is also handy. Sometimes a little more flex under the thumbs is helpful with colder temp waxes

But the most important tip is what my daughters coach told me: don’t sweat it too much vis-a-vis Floro vs non floro, wide temp range vs minimum temp range wax etc as in a race environment pilot error will always have a greater impact than waxing skills.

Happy gliding guys and gals!

[thefortrees]

in a race environment pilot error will always have a greater impact than waxing skills.

Happy gliding guys and gals!

Pilot error, wtf dude? Get outta here, this is TRG

[arild]

All for pilot error, but I just don't want my skis to suck in around freezing temps.

I did purple swix ironed in 5 times, then scraping and 12 passes with the brass brush. Awesome glide, ten runs, in conditions like the above.

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[NW_SKIER]

Pilot error, wtf dude? Get outta here, this is TRG

Seriously. I never make mistakes