2022 PGA

[Woodsy]

My real point is that all of a sudden, because they’re going to the LIV, DJ Brooks Bryson now suck? And you cite Kevin Kisner, Marc Leoshman’s 6 career wins, Harris English…THE Harris English, in the flesh, were the names at Travelers. If they went to LIV they’d be also-rans. Webb Simpson! At least he won a major in the last 5 years. imagine how washed up you’d call Webb Simpson if he suddenly played the LIV Tour.

And DJ won’t be any good because Harris English, the amateur who came in fourth, and both Korn and Ferry arent pushing him anymore.

In know that the Brooks v. Bryson Rivalry was a highlight of yours a few years ago, but can you back up what you are saying? A few of us have posted rankings and articles. Anyone saying these guys are fantastic and a real loss? DJ seems only one who might be and he seems uninterested since he won Fed Ex and got married.

Heres another article basically saying these gents are fleecing the Saudis https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/0...ng-off-saudis/

You are entitled to your opinons, but show your work. Show us anything that says everyone who left isnt on the down hill of their career ( Wolfe may be an exception, but the exception proves the rule?!?)

[Danno]

Saudi pole.

*golf clap*

You are entitled to your opinons, but show your work. Show us anything that says everyone who left isnt on the down hill of their career ( Wolfe may be an exception, but the exception proves the rule?!?)

Some of these guys are young enough that it may be premature to say that they are on the downhill of their career, but certainly they are significantly down from their high point, with no guarantee that they'll get back to that high point.

[DBdude]

This Freakonomics episode makes the morality argument against LIV seem a little less cut-and-dry: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/wha...-does-it-work/

Don't get me wrong, Saudi Arabia can get fucked, but the Saudi Sovereign Wealth Fund is invested in tons of US companies, and has also thrown a bunch of money at the ladies Euro tour (which is a joint venture with the LPGA) which no one seems to care about.

thank you

[TahoeJ]

Wolfe may be an exception, but the exception proves the rule?!?)

Over the past 2 years Wolff has fallen from 12th in the world down to 77th and so far this season he's missed more cuts than he's made. So the downward trend checks out. He's still young with potential, though. Check out the field for this weekend's exhibition, are you excited? It's also worth noting that the shotgun format is incredibly stupid and sucks out any chance of real drama. It's like the people who put this together had never watched a golf tournament before.



BTW - I guess I'm okay with the "we're ripping off the Saudis" angle but when guys like Bryson start spewing Saudi propaganda then they can go fuck themselves.

[cinnepa]

a little long but freddie done with them.......good shot at phil - last paragraph.

JERSEY CITY, N.J. — Fred Couples, who has captained three U.S. Presidents Cup teams to victory, is leading a different kind of team this week at Liberty National, hard against the Hudson River across from Lower Manhattan. His charge this time around: the U.S. squad at the Icons Series, a new match-play event that pits 12 golf-mad athletes from the U.S. against their counterparts from across the world.

Couples has some strategizing to do before the matches begin in earnest Thursday morning: Should he pair up former NFL running backs Reggie Bush and Marshall Faulk, for example, or would he be better off cross-pollinating athletes from different sports, matching, say, ex-MLB pitcher John Smoltz with hoopster-turned-college golfer J.R. Smith. Decisions, decisions…

Alas, as Couples paced the property with a reporter on Wednesday, the former Masters champion was mulling another decision, one that has dominated the golf-news cycle in recent weeks: the choice many of his fellow PGA Tour players have made to sever ties with the PGA Tour and sign lucrative deals with the upstart Saudi-funded LIV Golf series.

As Couples strolled to the range under sun-splashed skies one of his Icons players caught up to him: 28-time Olympic medalist and avowed golf nut Michael Phelps.

NEWS
Patrick Reed makes his LIV debut this week in Oregon.
‘Listen to the players’: Patrick Reed rips PGA Tour on his way out the door
BY: DYLAN DETHIER
“Let me ask you a question,” Couples said to the swimming legend. “You win the L.A. Open or a LIV [event] — L.A., you get a million-nine, LIV you get four [million]. What trophy would you rather have in your house?”

“For me,” Phelps said, “I want to go out there and be a part of history, and try to recreate history. That’s what I was all about.”

“You know what,” Couples said, “here’s a guy who’s won a million [swimming] events and he just said it right on the button.”

Couples, as you’ve probably deduced by now, is a PGA Tour loyalist, a legacy guy. He’s not opposed to change or improvement, but he is “disappointed,” he says, that players have jumped ship for LIV. He has made that clear in a few tweets he’s posted over the past two months — “Great to see some real and exciting golf being played in Canada this weekend,” he tweeted in the wake of the Canadian Open last month, a cheeky shot at that week’s LIV Golf event in London — but on Wednesday Couples expounded in no uncertain terms on his feelings about the rival tour and the PGA Tour stars who have contracted with it, at least a few of whom Couples has captained, or captained against, in past team events.

First and foremost, Couples said, he is uncomfortable with LIV’s financial backers: the Saudi government, which has been accused of various human-rights atrocities.

“I think this is a family thing for me,” Couples said. “I’m a little peon from Seattle, but I know where the money’s coming from, and I think my family would disown me if I went. Of course, that’s easy for me to say because I’m not going, so I can actually tell you whatever I want to tell you.”

NEWS
brooks Koepka
‘Opinions change’: Brooks Koepka explains LIV decision in tense presser
BY: DYLAN DETHIER
The same cannot be said of players who have signed with LIV, Couples said. They’ve essentially been muzzled, he said, which has been apparent in press conferences.

“These guys — you’ve seen their interviews, right?” Couples said. “Have you ever seen Phil look so stupid in his life? They know it’s a joke.”

Couples was referring to Phil Mickelson’s two most recent press conferences — one at the debut LIV event in London, the other at the U.S. Open — in which Mickelson, in many observers’ eyes, delivered a series of inadequate answers when trying to explain or rationalize his LIV allegiance.

On Tuesday of this week, at the second LIV event near Portland, Ore., more LIV signees faced the press, including a trio of the newest big-name commits: Brooks Koepka, Patrick Reed and Pat Perez. Seated together at a dais in a joint press conference, the players faced a predictable line of questioning from the assembled reporters, including queries about Saudi human-rights issues, what convinced the players to join LIV and if the PGA Tour could have done anything to keep the players from leaving. As the questions kept coming, the mood in the room grew more and more tense.

“I heard of all people Perez was a little confrontational,” Couples said of the three-time PGA Tour winner. “He’s a grain of sand in this Tour. He should be soft and kind, but he’s, like, raising his voice. I’m done with it.”

Couples also questioned the long-term viability of LIV. He said he understands that the tour’s organizers are not seeking a quick profit but still is confounded by the huge sums they’re offering players.

“I cannot believe they can pay a guy $150 million for that,” Couples said; LIV players are obligated to play only eight 54-hole events in 2022 with plans to expand the schedule in ’23 and beyond. “What, Phil wouldn’t have gone for 100 and Dustin [Johnson] for 70? Then what does that tell you right there?”

The reasons players have cited for signing with LIV also ring hollow to Couples. Many players have said the lighter schedule is a draw; some have admitted the life-changing payday was too tempting to resist; others have said they’re simply trying to help “grow the game.”


Couples and Mickelson at the 2016 Masters.

GETTY IMAGES

“They’re all saying they want to change golf, they’re doing it for the better of golf,” Couples said. “No one has said, ‘Hey, when I look back 50 years from now … we’ll have made this tour [what it is].’ No one has said that. You know why? Because they’re not going to be around in three years.”

For his part, Mickelson has said that he is committed to LIV for at least two years. At that point, he’ll be nearly 54 and presumably still a big attraction. If his largely positive reception at the U.S. Open last month was any indication, Mickelson is still in golf fans’ good graces. Less clear is whether Mickelson’s peer group on Tour feels the same way.

Couples is 10 years older than Mickelson, but they have battled one another in hundreds of tournaments while establishing themselves as two of the most beloved players of their generation. In 2006, they played together in the final pairing at the Masters; when Mickelson won his second green jacket that Sunday, he and Couples embraced on the 18th green. Just last year, Couples and Mickelson were vice-captains on Steve Stricker’s winning U.S. Ryder Cup team at Whistling Straits. They have had some good times together.

Had.

“I don’t think I’ll ever to talk to him again,” Couples said. “What for? I’m not in the same boat as him anymore, and probably never will play golf with him again. I’m not saying that to be mean. We’re just in different orbits.”

[Danno]

Phil Mickelson: ‘Taking Money From The Saudis Leaves Less Money For The Next 9/11’

Bwahahaha

[Cisco Kid]

Freddy is Freddy and always been his real self. Phil created the nice guy public image that wasn't him IRL. He did it for the dollars then too.

[SkiCougar]

interesting that no network has picked up a liv tournament yet. i mean the usfl champ game is about to be on primetime fox and they're drawing maybe 5k for any game host team birmingham is not playing, but phil brooks and bryson and a new league cant get a cable network to pick it up ?

my wag is this doesnt make it 3 years. phil for phil as he's old and about worn out his welcome in golf, but brooks, bryson, matt wolf may be outta golf in 5 years. if i were the pga, i'd allow them back in provided they went thru qualifying again and made it. i realize that's sounds a little harsh for players like brooks and bryson, but the pga gave them all the setup to make it big and they said FU, no reason the pga shouldnt say FU right back.

[k2skier112]

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.186.html

A quick glance shows that there's maybe 10 to 12 players in the top 100 on the PGA playing the LIV tour
Rich white entitled fucts have ways been good at throwing away their moral compass when it comes to greed

[TahoeJ]

Freddy is Freddy and always been his real self. Phil created the nice guy public image that wasn't him IRL. He did it for the dollars then too.

I'm almost finished with Shipnuck's book on Phil that just came out (the one that got him in trouble with all of this) and it's pretty much what I figured from what I've heard over the years. Phil is part awesome, super generous, talented, cool guy, and part dickhead insecure narcissist. People are complicated and we can't always fit them into a nice little box with a perfect all-encompassing label. I highly recommend the book - there are some great stories and anecdotes in there.

[TahoeJ]

Branden Grace took home the LIV trophy at Pumpkin Ridge... here's how he was doing in real events prior. lol...

[DBdude]

so is he in a situation for gambling debt?

read a story ten years ago in golf mag, phil hits a bystander with his ball - takes out a golf glove and puts a c note in and gives it the person

[Danno]

So you're saying he's one of the best players in golf, amirite?

[TahoeJ]

so is he in a situation for gambling debt?

read a story ten years ago in golf mag, phil hits a bystander with his ball - takes out a golf glove and puts a c note in and gives it the person

Phil has always been extremely generous like that… I highly recommend reading the book. I honestly judge him less than the younger guys like Brooks, Bryson, etc. and many of his gripes with the Tour are legitimate. Gambling debts aside I also think he kind of sacrificed himself for the younger players’ benefit. So it’s disappointing but I kind of get it from his perspective.

[Woodsy]

Great story about the gent who got an exemption for the Barbasol : https://www.kentucky.com/sports/article263180108.html

[TahoeJ]

[Danno]

The LIV guys want the easy money. I get it. And in some ways they have said that. But it isn't a good enough answer, especially given where the money is coming from and also considering that they want to have their cake and eat it too; they want to be able to play the majors, to keep their sponsors, to continue to look good in the eyes of all the fans. So they also have to sell a narrative about their choice. And I think that's where the rub is.

[detrusor]

The win win for all involved would have been cooperation. However both sides are such self righteous d-bags they couldn’t see that. Add a 5th major from the Liv and then add the others to the schedule. Everyone plays, the Liv tournaments pay more and get more competition and air time.


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[TahoeJ]

Add a 5th major from the Liv

The fuck? lol...

[BmillsSkier]

The video of their new plane that popped up yesterday looks like a flying disco coke den.

[Hopeless Sinner]

The win win for all involved would have been cooperation. However both sides are such self righteous d-bags they couldn’t see that. Add a 5th major from the Liv and then add the others to the schedule. Everyone plays, the Liv tournaments pay more and get more competition and air time.


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They're trying to kill the PGA (and Euro) Tour and you're going to cooperate w that?

Besides, doing business w the Saudis is disgusting on every level.

[skiballs]

The video of their new plane that popped up yesterday looks like a flying disco coke den.

Through a few Perkins hostesses on that bad boy and Tiger won’t be able to resist.


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[altacoup]

Totally agree with his take. And I’ll certainly be rooting for Billy now.

[BmillsSkier]

Through a few Perkins hostesses on that bad boy and Tiger won’t be able to resist.


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Now we’re talking.

[TahoeJ]

Totally agree with his take. And I’ll certainly be rooting for Billy now.

Same. I mean if players say it was just too much money to turn down and they are setting up their families for generational wealth I can respect that even if it’s kinda gross, but cut the shit with all of those other excuses. Pat Perez, long-time grinder, for example, has pretty much stuck with that and I appreciate the honesty (“this is like winning the lottery for my family”). As far as major sports leagues go the PGA is waaaaaayyyy better than almost every other league - they do so much community and charity work / sponsorship, so acting like they’re the NFL is disingenuous.