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  1. #251
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Dystopia
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    16,046
    Quote Originally Posted by detrusor View Post
    Shit

    Need to decide between the 120ís and 202 138ís.

    I have lp 105ís as daily drivers and supergoats as powder day skis.

    Tough decisions


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    All depends on where you will be.
    Some tour 138. Marshal says he doesnít.

    138 can work on a slow day and deep day.
    Can also work on ski passes like glory, or other boot pack terrain. But even for sidecountry, you have the challenge of run outs and cat tracks.

    120 I have used as a DD at times. Skiable even in low tide. Not ideal however.
    Thatís why Iím in for the free ride construction 120 instead of carbon.

    138 is mind blowing. Pivot. Slide. It does weird shit.
    120 can do some of that. But itís more of a charger. And more versatile.

    If your hill has a full morning of untracked I could see 138 mornings quite regularly. Doesnít even need to be a huge dump. Those things float like crazy.

  2. #252
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    372
    Quote Originally Posted by otto parts View Post
    Marshal, sweet (money where your mouth time I guess)
    Happen to know how blossom measures vs stated (ie little long like Volkl or?)


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Good question. they might measure a cm short straight tape pull, but pretty true to length, for sure.

  3. #253
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    421
    I had the Blue 138s in a 202 for a while and have some good memories, especially cat days. Landing big drops in deep snow was like magic. I tried to go all day in the crud on them and my failing knee convinced me to sell. With a new knee, I think I need the 192s but the 87s are interesting too. But..

    Question on the 87's. Forgive me if I missed it but what is the thinking behind the flat camber?

    For lower tide conditions, I ski FIS GS and SL's, 2016 MX83's and 2018 MX98's and just gave away a pair of 2016 Monster 83s that I really liked but I rarely grabbed them once I got the MX83s which I think are a little more versatile. All of these have quite a bit of camber and not much rocker.

    I'm concerned the pop on turn exit and suspension in rough stuff will be lost/reduced without the camber.

  4. #254
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    372
    Regarding a choice between the 138 and 120… hmm.
    if you want (1) directional (2) surfy (3) versatile, get the 120. It’s a super fun fall line ski that can navigate refrozen bush exits and skins well. This is why I prefer it, personally, for human powered use (edit- as well as any mixed bag/don't know what you are going to get/travel type days).

    The 138 is different. It's for skiing all types of untracked snow, top to bottom. Wind skin, solar effect, steep spines, low
    angle luxury pow. It slashes and drifts. It carves into funky stuff. But it’s a handful on wind board, side steps, and firm runouts.

    Don’t get me wrong, I plan to mount touring bindings onto a pair of 192 138, but they will go out less frequently when touring 190 120s.
    Last edited by Marshal Olson; 01-20-2022 at 11:37 AM.

  5. #255
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    372
    Quote Originally Posted by Utagonian View Post
    I had the Blue 138s in a 202 for a while and have some good memories, especially cat days. Landing big drops in deep snow was like magic. I tried to go all day in the crud on them and my failing knee convinced me to sell. With a new knee, I think I need the 192s but the 87s are interesting too. But..

    Question on the 87's. Forgive me if I missed it but what is the thinking behind the flat camber?

    For lower tide conditions, I ski FIS GS and SL's, 2016 MX83's and 2018 MX98's and just gave away a pair of 2016 Monster 83s that I really liked but I rarely grabbed them once I got the MX83s which I think are a little more versatile. All of these have quite a bit of camber and not much rocker.

    I'm concerned the pop on turn exit and suspension in rough stuff will be lost/reduced without the camber.
    ok! The r87 will certainly have a bit more camber that the r120, but will be less cambered than your mx83.

    My intent is to make a ski that that is very carvy and fun on piste, but is MUCH more versatile off piste low tide. I think the mx83 is fantastic, though I found it pretty one dimensional (Ie no fun off the groomer).

    I thought the monster 88 (haven’t skied the 83) was fun off piste but kinda weird carving. The radius was wonky and didn’t match the mount point.

    hope that helps!

  6. #256
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    421
    Thanks Marshall. FWIW (and sorry for thread drift), I found the Monster 83s carved like a race ski on firm groomed but really had a preferred turn size/shape and didn't like really big/fast turns or going straight. They wanted to always be turning. They were fun in moguls but not so much if snow was wonky or deep. I skied the MX83s (fresh .7/3 tune) at Alta yesterday afternoon. On roughed up groomers they were fantastic as expected and in the chalky wind-buffed snow in Mineral they worked well as long as I kept them on edge and kept my speed up and used the pop to come off the snow on transition. I can see your thinking on adding in a little drifty looseness in these conditions. It would likely give more confidence to let them rip. My MX98s look like very similar but are a lot looser, (I have them tuned the same). Appreciate the insight.

  7. #257
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    Before
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    25,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Utagonian View Post
    I'm concerned the pop on turn exit and suspension in rough stuff will be lost/reduced without the camber.
    My main reason for loving the L120s so much is the elastic pop out of the turn. I think that has a lot to do with the stiff tail and softer forebody. They don't have much of a sidecut and are completely flat/no camber.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  8. #258
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    66
    Ok, this seems like something cool that I should get in on... leaning toward an R87. I'll drop you an email via your website to figure out what I should buy.

    Are the places for 120 or 138 either backcountry touring or Heli? I haven't found snow deep enough yet that I would need them so I must not be doing something that I should be.

    Cool that pricing is the same as widths increase. That always seemed tacky.

    I don't know exactly what Korund Glas matte material is but based on the feedback, sounds like it is the best.
    Kind of wish R series top sheets used your full website logo (erlenmeyer with lines coming off) instead of the partial logo.
    Last edited by m5d5cb; 01-20-2022 at 09:00 PM.

  9. #259
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,815
    m5d5cb-- What you are witnessing is one of the world's best ski designers partnering with some of the world's best manufacturers to give us bad-ass motherfuckers the skis we always crave but other big-house builders can't justify building because 90% of the market doesn't ski like we do. He's keeping overhead low, order-based, so his company can actually exist.

    Buy whatever ski is calling you. These are time-tested shapes that won't age.

    You're not doing anything wrong with not finding snow deep enough for a C120 or a C138. We all live around the world. For me in Japan, my daily driver is 122 under foot. But that R99 is calling me for a Dec/Jan, pre-forest, all-resort ripper.

  10. #260
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    410
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal Olson View Post
    Regarding a choice between the 138 and 120… hmm.
    if you want (1) directional (2) surfy (3) versatile, get the 120. It’s a super fun fall line ski that can navigate refrozen bush exits and skins well. This is why I prefer it, personally, for human powered use (edit- as well as any mixed bag/don't know what you are going to get/travel type days).

    The 138 is different. It's for skiing all types of untracked snow, top to bottom. Wind skin, solar effect, steep spines, low
    angle luxury pow. It slashes and drifts. It carves into funky stuff. But it’s a handful on wind board, side steps, and firm runouts.

    Don’t get me wrong, I plan to mount touring bindings onto a pair of 192 138, but they will go out less frequently when touring 190 120s.

    Just my 2ct as I tour a lot on L120s and did tour quite a bit on spoons (sure they are different that 138s):
    If you have a 100% powder day from bottom to top and back again I go for the spoons. But if you will encounter even a bit of tracked out, any kind of crust or some steeper slopes to travers I don't like the spoons so much for uphill.

    So for me here in this works like:
    - lots of pow, storm skiing with low visibility ->I stay below treeline and use spoons as they feel much more maneuverable in the trees and float perfect over terrain that does not hold avi danger
    - enougth snow to justify 120s but open terrain above treeline: going for nice bigger turns with 120s and manage to get there nicely with good edges to travers crust, tracked out and steep slopes on the way there.

    in brief: for me it depends on the terrain I want to ski as the turn characteristics of those two skis are quite different. Not sure how much you can transfer spoon-experience to 138s.

  11. #261
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    2 hours from anything
    Posts
    9,634
    Quote Originally Posted by m5d5cb View Post
    Ok, this seems like something cool that I should get in on... leaning toward an R87. I'll drop you an email via your website to figure out what I should buy.

    Are the places for 120 or 138 either backcountry touring or Heli? I haven't found snow deep enough yet that I would need them so I must not be doing something that I should be.

    Cool that pricing is the same as widths increase. That always seemed tacky.

    I don't know exactly what Korund Glas matte material is but based on the feedback, sounds like it is the best.
    Kind of wish R series top sheets used your full website logo (erlenmeyer with lines coming off) instead of the partial logo.
    Most rocketed skis will work well in right side up blower. The 138s can actually make some snow ski shallow, right side up higher density snow for example.

    The place the 138s blow every other competitor away is in funky, crusty, upside down snow. Iíve had a blast skiing them in firm breakable crust when everyone else is doing their best to get as far in the back seat as possible and still occasionally cartwheeling.

  12. #262
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,320
    The shape and girth of the l138 is such that cartwheeling with them, given the correct pitch, can result in lift-off.

  13. #263
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,134
    ^^lol!

  14. #264
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    372
    Hi All!

    Sharing a quick update. Feb 1 is a big day! It is the deadline day for me to submit my final numbers to the manufacturing partners. I am ordering a few extra pair of each ski on offer. As such, prices will increase $100/ski on Feb 1st.

    Please note, once this round is sold, it will probably be another 12 months before the next batch of these shapes are made.

    Now is the time, homies! Cheers.


    Edit: I think I have answered everyone's questions, but please let me know if you have more. I am trying to get everyone!

  15. #265
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    26,599
    As a total Lotus fan-boi l always thot some one needed to do this, I still got 2 pair of the 2011 red hybrid lotus 120 which I love so I'm not a customer

    the skis are only 3 s/n's apart but the shorter hybrid lotus 120 has more early rise than the longer hybrid lotus 120 which has never made sense to me ?

    In any case as a data point I do prefer the turns the shorter skis makes, best of luck and i applaud your project !
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  16. #266
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    372
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    As a total Lotus fan-boi l always thot some one needed to do this, I still got 2 pair of the 2011 red hybrid lotus 120 which I love so I'm not a customer

    the skis are only 3 s/n's apart but the shorter hybrid lotus 120 has more early rise than the longer hybrid lotus 120 which has never made sense to me ?

    In any case as a data point I do prefer the turns the shorter skis makes, best of luck and i applaud your project !
    You have the 184 and 190 correct? I believe that your are the first run 184s, and that more rocker was pressed into later production 190s. They definately all got more rocker through time.

    I do hope to offer 180's version next in the round as well.

  17. #267
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    26,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal Olson View Post
    You have the 184 and 190 correct? I believe that your are the first run 184s, and that more rocker was pressed into later production 190s. They definately all got more rocker through time.

    I do hope to offer 180's version next in the round as well.
    yup 184 (sn0035) and 190 (sn0038) so the longer/ newer ski has less early rise

    sliding paper under the tips on a bar surface I measured early rise at 60mm for the 184 and 50mm for the 190

    I prefer the feel of the 184 but either one is pretty easy to handle/ slarve
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  18. #268
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,134
    Was thinking of ordering another pair. Do we have to pay 100% ahead of time? Deposit?
    Thx!

  19. #269
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    norcal
    Posts
    1,362
    192/202 ordered!



    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Life of a repo man is always intense.

  20. #270
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maine Coast
    Posts
    3,691
    Skip over some threads not realizing the content within. This is so cool. I have revamped my lineup over the past two years, but a trip to Japan could have me looking for a special ski. Thanks for doing this and wishing you good fortune

  21. #271
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    372
    Quote Originally Posted by byates1 View Post
    Was thinking of ordering another pair. Do we have to pay 100% ahead of time? Deposit?
    Thx!
    Cheers! So shopify (the website platform) doesn't really do deposits all that well out of the box, so I made gift cards in a few denominations to solve for this.

    That way, you can put cash down, let me know what model you are after so I can reserve it for you, and we settle up the order once your skis arrive!

    Would that work?

    https://heritagelabskis.com/products...41401860194492

  22. #272
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    3,134
    ^^ works great thanks!

    I'm sure a lot of dudes would be more able to order if they didn't have to come up w 750$ a year in advance.

  23. #273
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,271
    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal Olson View Post
    Sharing a quick update. Feb 1 is a big day! It is the deadline day for me to submit my final numbers to the manufacturing partners. I am ordering a few extra pair of each ski on offer. As such, prices will increase $100/ski on Feb 1st.
    Well I think this is the kick in the butt I needed...

    Considering the C120 in 200 for pow touring and resort powder until it gets tracked out. Still tbd where exactly I will be living next season but will likely be CA, CO, or WA. I'm 6'2", 195ish with ski gear, advanced-expert. Daily driver is a Nordica Enforcer 104 Free in 191.

    1 - Assume these skis fit that bill well? (They are billed as the OG 50/50 ski...)
    2 - Assume that 200 makes more sense than a 190?

    I think the answers to those questions are both "yes" but wanted a double check. The FR120 looks sweet to run over tourists and for the tracked out pow days...I just don't think I can justify that + C120, so a C120 might have to suffice until I switch over to my DD.

    Excited for this, Marshal - thanks for putting this together!

  24. #274
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    372
    Quote Originally Posted by byates1 View Post
    ^^ works great thanks!

    I'm sure a lot of dudes would be more able to order if they didn't have to come up w 750$ a year in advance.
    I hear you brother! Doing the best I can! appreciate everyone's support for this project.

  25. #275
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    372
    Quote Originally Posted by fool View Post
    Well I think this is the kick in the butt I needed...

    Considering the C120 in 200 for pow touring and resort powder until it gets tracked out. Still tbd where exactly I will be living next season but will likely be CA, CO, or WA. I'm 6'2", 195ish with ski gear, advanced-expert. Daily driver is a Nordica Enforcer 104 Free in 191.

    1 - Assume these skis fit that bill well? (They are billed as the OG 50/50 ski...)
    2 - Assume that 200 makes more sense than a 190?

    I think the answers to those questions are both "yes" but wanted a double check. The FR120 looks sweet to run over tourists and for the tracked out pow days...I just don't think I can justify that + C120, so a C120 might have to suffice until I switch over to my DD.

    Excited for this, Marshal - thanks for putting this together!

    You bet!

    In my opinion, if you are like 30% or more non-lift access for your pow turns, I'd say to get the Carbon. If you are mostly (ie 80%+) skiing lifts at a mountain that can get tracked out pretty fast, then I would say get the freeride construction to mob through broken up snow. I do think the long running length of the 200 really helps maximize stability in chunder, so I would think more about if you want something a bit more responsive in pow, or a bit more bulldozed in broken snow.

    At your size, as long as you plan to be at an area that is more open than super tight... go 200. Since the 120 is flat vs. the super rockered 138, I do think they will skin pretty well, irregardless.

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