Bringing Back The Best: Lotii And Other Assorted Love Songs

[skifishbum]

can i have fish or unicorns
on my topsheet?

[Core Shot]

I’m wondering if it’s a scam. The original maggot marshalolsen would never use a wrong font on tgr classic blue background. I can’t see shit.

Who are you. And what have you done with the whelk and the mime and mr poundkey?

[Marshal Olson]

I’m wondering if it’s a scam. The original maggot marshalolsen would never use a wrong font on tgr classic blue background. I can’t see shit.

wait... wut? I just typed the reply into the box, haha.


Do over:

Thanks for the positive feedback and kind comments! Sharing quick follow up answers to a few questions.

METAL SKIS
The original pow skis (Axiom, Powder Plus), many of the first-wave comp skis (Im103, Super Nobis, Legend Pro, Stormrider SS/DP/Pro, Nordica FF105) in the were built with race ski construction. The use of this technique has generally died out recently (Monster 98/108, LPR105) due to the fact that it adds weight and cost.

Race ski construction generally means two things. (1) they use full VDS rubber sheet tip to tail and edge to edge and (2) they use microblock cores.

Most skis today use VDS tape (a small strip) placed on between the edge and sidewall below the core and between the topsheet and sidewall above the core. This is done to improve the bond line and prevent delaminations. VDS sheet is a different application. It give the ski that magically smooth and damp ride that those with time on old Legend Pros, Monsters, etc know and love. What makes it special is that it adds that soothness without affecting the skis rebound and energy. It adds at least $150 to the retail price of a ski, so normal big brand skis just don't use it.

With respect to cores, most freeride skis use ~25mm wide blocks laminated together to make the core. There are ~6-10 blocks of wood width-wise across the ski. Race skis are much narrower core block, often times <1cm. In a raceroom constructed fat ski, there can be 20-30 blocks width-wise. This changes the ski's torsion and it increases the dampness, because there is way more resin content in the core. It is also much more expensive to do. If memory serves, the IM103 had 28 core blocks width-wise.

Old school race manufactured skis ski unlike anything else. There is a reason those skis are pretty much all cult classics, and this is why it is a unicorn hunt to find them in decent condition today. But they were expensive to make then, never were produced in much quantity, and too expensive to produce today for less than $1000 and many of those have been neutered to become luxury skis.

Many of the old school skis also most all had weird design quirks, from cracking sidewalls on the Heads to topsheet delams on the LP, hooky tips on the Monsters 108, etc. So the my focus on this project is to apply best-in-class super dialed shaping to best-ever construction and make them attainable price-wise.

C138 ROCKER PROFILES
This is all one man's feedback and opinion, so take it with however many grains of sand you wish. So, I was fortunate enough to have skied essentially this same rocker profile as a test a number of years ago. I think about 5 pair were made. I believe Reidhresko has my old pair. Cbrady21 has a similar pair that was made with this style tip, just without the flat spot (full rocker) as well. The punchline is... this is the rocker you want. It was not, to me, a weird amalgamation. It was the ideal balance between surfy and stability. Sure I could just just do a Rocker 1 or Rocker 2, but when I think this "Rocker 1.5" is the best that has been... I am putting my money where my mouth is and making it so...haha!

Personally, I think it is the ideal powder touring compliment to a BGT108 (which is my every day BC ski, and basically perfect for that use, IMO). Still light enough to tour well with Tectons or similar, but good to go for all ends of the earth travel.

That is my logic, anyways. Curious for other's thoughts.

[Buster Highmen]

That is my logic, anyways. Curious for other's thoughts.

COLOR=#333333 sucks.
Your treadle on the hozenpflaffle is out of alignment.

Thanks for the positive feedback and kind comments! Sharing quick follow up answers to a few questions.

METAL SKIS
The original pow skis (Axiom, Powder Plus), many of the first-wave comp skis (Im103, Super Nobis, Legend Pro, Stormrider SS/DP/Pro, Nordica FF105) in the were built with race ski construction. The use of this technique has generally died out recently (Monster 98/108, LPR105) due to the fact that it adds weight and cost.

Race ski construction generally means two things. (1) they use full VDS rubber sheet tip to tail and edge to edge and (2) they use microblock cores.

Most skis today use VDS tape (a small strip) placed on between the edge and sidewall below the core and between the topsheet and sidewall above the core. This is done to improve the bond line and prevent delaminations. VDS sheet is a different application. It give the ski that magically smooth and damp ride that those with time on old Legend Pros, Monsters, etc know and love. What makes it special is that it adds that soothness without affecting the skis rebound and energy. It adds at least $150 to the retail price of a ski, so normal big brand skis just don't use it.

With respect to cores, most freeride skis use ~25mm wide blocks laminated together to make the core. There are ~6-10 blocks of wood width-wise across the ski. Race skis are much narrower core block, often times <1cm. In a raceroom constructed fat ski, there can be 20-30 blocks width-wise. This changes the ski's torsion and it increases the dampness, because there is way more resin content in the core. It is also much more expensive to do. If memory serves, the IM103 had 28 core blocks width-wise.

Old school race manufactured skis ski unlike anything else. There is a reason those skis are pretty much all cult classics, and this is why it is a unicorn hunt to find them in decent condition today. But they were expensive to make then, never were produced in much quantity, and too expensive to produce today for less than $1000 and many of those have been neutered to become luxury skis.

Many of the old school skis also most all had weird design quirks, from cracking sidewalls on the Heads to topsheet delams on the LP, hooky tips on the Monsters 108, etc. So the my focus on this project is to apply best-in-class super dialed shaping to best-ever construction and make them attainable price-wise.

C138 ROCKER PROFILES
This is all one man's feedback and opinion, so take it with however many grains of sand you wish. So, I was fortunate enough to have skied essentially this same rocker profile as a test a number of years ago. I think about 5 pair were made. I believe Reidhresko has my old pair. Cbrady21 has a similar pair that was made with this style tip, just without the flat spot (full rocker) as well. The punchline is... this is the rocker you want. It was not, to me, a weird amalgamation. It was the ideal balance between surfy and stability. Sure I could just just do a Rocker 1 or Rocker 2, but when I think this "Rocker 1.5" is the best that has been... I am putting my money where my mouth is and making it so...haha!

Personally, I think it is the ideal powder touring compliment to a BGT108 (which is my every day BC ski, and basically perfect for that use, IMO). Still light enough to tour well with Tectons or similar, but good to go for all ends of the earth travel.

That is my logic, anyways. Curious for other's thoughts.

I could go with black graphics and your yellow erlenmeyeresque icon.

[fat yeti]

The R120 just keeps getting more appealing every time you talk about metal skis. Time to sell some stuff.


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[Jaxson]

COLOR=#333333 sucks.
Your treadle on the hozenpflaffle is out of alignment.


I could go with black graphics and your yellow erlenmeyeresque icon.

For the Loti 120s would agree to get away from so much white. Hard to find a white ski that comes off in deep snow.

[johnnyg82]

What’s the inspiration for the R87?

[Core Shot]

COLOR=#333333 sucks.
Your treadle on the hozenpflaffle is out of alignment.


I could go with black graphics and your yellow erlenmeyeresque icon.

hozenpflaffle

Yes.

And your hovercraft is full of eels

What’s the inspiration for the R87?

Head Monster 88 I think. A classic low tide charger.
Also similar to the original legend pro.
Raceroom charger styleeeee

Marshal, still looking for feedback on why a rockered ski wouldn’t work with metal.
Obviously the spatula had metal. Damp as fuck. But too short.

Rereading your metal description it seems tip rocker makes more tip deflection so a charger ski won’t have rocker.

But what about that odd person(me apparently) that wants rocker and slarve, but also wants resort stability?

The LP 105 (whiteish topsheets, after the red black Motörhead years) had a lot of tip rocker for a charger. Sweet ski. And still charged pretty well.

But if you put metal on an even more rockered shape, would it be a failure?
I love slarve. But don’t tour enough. A slarvy metal damp ski would be cool.

I swear there’s a niche market here.

PS. I’ll buy two pair of whatever. Even if it’s not a ski I want. I know you need 25. I can be that 25th. And you can sell it later. This whole project is cool. Reminds me of splat and the bro model. Or on3p. Old school trg.

[Marshal Olson]

hozenpflaffle

Head Monster 88 I think. A classic low tide charger.
Also similar to the original legend pro.
Raceroom charger styleeeee

Yes, exactly - thanks for this. Monster length and radius with something closer to an Asteroid flex pattern and snow feel.

Marshal, still looking for feedback on why a rockered ski wouldn’t work with metal.
Obviously the spatula had metal. Damp as fuck. But too short.

Rereading your metal description it seems tip rocker makes more tip deflection so a charger ski won’t have rocker.

But what about that odd person(me apparently) that wants rocker and slarve, but also wants resort stability?

The LP 105 (whiteish topsheets, after the red black Motörhead years) had a lot of tip rocker for a charger. Sweet ski. And still charged pretty well.

But if you put metal on an even more rockered shape, would it be a failure?
I love slarve. But don’t tour enough. A slarvy metal damp ski would be cool.

I swear there’s a niche market here.

Ok... so a few things.

First off, I just got off a call with my factory making the C120. They can absolutely make a metal version, but it would take about 18mo due to supply chain constraints on .4 and .5 titanal in that region. So, I can do it, but delivering 24mo from now.

However, I am putting finishing touches on a Freeride (FR) construction that would be super smooth riding too. Think EHP and Faction 13 snow feel. That I could make from the same run as the C120/C138 run for you this summer, if you want to guinea pig it. I am making a personal pair of 200cm 120 in this freeride construction for myself, anyhow

I think the merit of rockered metal skis has tons of merit... The spatula as you point out (which was heavy as heck, like 2600g), OG bodacious, RC112, Kuro, lots of really good fat, rockered, metal skis.

Not sure if this answers the question, a bit of a stream-of-consciousness post.




Oh, and for those asking, on the flex of the C120/C138: the 20x sizes are flex 3 and the 19x sizes are flex 2.5

[phatty]

This whole project is cool. Reminds me of splat and the bro model. Or on3p. Old school trg.

So true. Brings back feelings of OG Powder Mag forums. My kids can't believe I've been logging in to these forums since well before they were alive, but it's stuff like this that keeps it going. I'm looking at the R99 as a resort charger.

[mr_pretzel]

If you want a tester for the FR core in either the c120 200cm or 190cm I’ll order one right now

[Jaxson]

Oh, and for those asking, on the flex of the C120/C138: the 20x sizes are flex 3 and the 19x sizes are flex 2.5

Flex numbers here look great for the C series. I will be ordering a couple.

[Pinned]

For someone skiing mainly in the Sierras does the 138 make sense to have in the quiver? Or is it a better tool for light blower snow that we don't see much of? And for someone 5'11" / 175lbs which length seems right...leaning 192 if I do get a pair.

[Power_Sauce]

For someone skiing mainly in the Sierras does the 138 make sense to have in the quiver? Or is it a better tool for light blower snow that we don't see much of? And for someone 5'11" / 175lbs which length seems right...leaning 192 if I do get a pair.

138 shines in heavy, funky 3d snow.


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[otto parts]

For someone skiing mainly in the Sierras does the 138 make sense to have in the quiver? Or is it a better tool for light blower snow that we don't see much of? And for someone 5'11" / 175lbs which length seems right...leaning 192 if I do get a pair.

Do it. Have had multiple storm days where they are magic. They didn’t suck on a few deep corn days either. If you ever get to Ak or a cat trip you’ll be flabbergasted. And you’re supporting a core mag doing cool mag work.


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[otto parts]

Marshal, don’t think you’ve ever commented on 138 spoons vs r1/2 and what you want to do. I do like the purple ones as I find them resort friendly (manageable on last 200 ft to lift) but still great in natural habitat…

Also-can you give more detail on 99?
Have a few pair of race room LPs in 186 and a like new unused pair in 194 and intrigued by a slightly updated shape but that build and feel.

Finally-take it you dig the Bmx 105 and might do something similar? is that very different from the short lived Dps 105 ?

kudos and orders imminent….



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[arild]

Yes, exactly - thanks for this. Monster length and radius with something closer to an Asteroid flex pattern and snow feel.




Ok... so a few things.

First off, I just got off a call with my factory making the C120. They can absolutely make a metal version, but it would take about 18mo due to supply chain constraints on .4 and .5 titanal in that region. So, I can do it, but delivering 24mo from now.

However, I am putting finishing touches on a Freeride (FR) construction that would be super smooth riding too. Think EHP and Faction 13 snow feel. That I could make from the same run as the C120/C138 run for you this summer, if you want to guinea pig it. I am making a personal pair of 200cm 120 in this freeride construction for myself, anyhow

I think the merit of rockered metal skis has tons of merit... The spatula as you point out (which was heavy as heck, like 2600g), OG bodacious, RC112, Kuro, lots of really good fat, rockered, metal skis.

Not sure if this answers the question, a bit of a stream-of-consciousness post.




Oh, and for those asking, on the flex of the C120/C138: the 20x sizes are flex 3 and the 19x sizes are flex 2.5

I'm up for a 192-196s ehp/thirteen hybrid, marshal.

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[El Chupacabra]

For someone skiing mainly in the Sierras does the 138 make sense to have in the quiver? Or is it a better tool for light blower snow that we don't see much of? And for someone 5'11" / 175lbs which length seems right...leaning 192 if I do get a pair.

Do it. Get 192s.

I have two 138s, Spoons, two 120s, RPC, RP112, and Spatulas. I mainly ski In the Sierra.

The main drawback to full reverse skis like the 138 is that they aren't great resort skis after everything is tracked - need to go back to the car for something else narrower and better in crud. Depending on the resort, that trip back to the car could take awhile.

[Core Shot]

So tell more about this FR free ride construction lotus 120 200cm.

No metal. But damp? A flex 3 carbon layup? (I own those and love them).
But more damp and less stiff than those bamboo sidewalls beasts would be cool.

In general it’s going to be a challenge getting a 25 pair commitment for all your offerings. Plus having spares in n your closet for any warranty etc.

We should focus on where the demand is.

I demand a lotus 120 200cm that’s damp

But more seriously. What’s the order status so far? I entered my email but got nothing. Clearly you need a mold for each model and length. I’d like to kick in for whatever is most likely to be built.

[ex-powderbroker]

Are the 138's made in China or Italy?

https://heritagelabskis.com/products/c138

[kid-kapow]

Are the 138's made in China or Italy?

https://heritagelabskis.com/products/c138

last bullet point in the link: Carefully crafted by Telos Splitboards in China (the same team that made the originals)

[ex-powderbroker]

Yeah, I saw that after I thought I read somewhere else on the site that all of the skis are made in the Blossom factory, hence why I linked it.

Impeccably made in Italy has a nicer ring than carefully crafted in China.

[abraham]

Yeah, I saw that after I thought I read somewhere else on the site that all of the skis are made in the Blossom factory, hence why I linked it.

Impeccably made in Italy has a nicer ring than carefully crafted in China.

The two lines are made in different places by different companies. Which makes a lot of sense given the two different purposes of the lines and the manufacturing experience of each.

Fwiw I believe the superbros were made by the Italian factory.

[Marshal Olson]

UPDATES!

- The 192 C138 is already 50% the way to green light. That ski needs a few more orders, but in a great place.
- I have been able to negotiate lower minimums on the Raceroom skis. These look really good too.
- The 190 C120 is in next place, 25% the way there. If you want 'em... now is the time!
- Whole lot of interest via DM and Email on the 202 C138 and 200 C120, but only a couple of orders for each.

There is interest on a heavy freeride 200 120. I will add it to the website and officially open to order, since that will help put more skis through the mold. Vitamin I asked in theory for a heavy freeride 202 138. If there is real interest here, I can add those too, again, more skis through the mold is good for these two in particular.

Impeccably made in Italy has a nicer ring than carefully crafted in China.

At least they both have good alliteration, haha

Marshal, don’t think you’ve ever commented on 138 spoons vs r1/2 and what you want to do. I do like the purple ones as I find them resort friendly (manageable on last 200 ft to lift) but still great in natural habitat…

Also-can you give more detail on 99?
Have a few pair of race room LPs in 186 and a like new unused pair in 194 and intrigued by a slightly updated shape but that build and feel.

Finally-take it you dig the Bmx 105 and might do something similar? is that very different from the short lived Dps 105 ?

I really liked the newer purple 138s (but haven't skied any more recent versions of since this one), but don't personally think of them as the definitive version. They were definitely a different ski. They have a 32m radius IIRC which does change how it pivots and drifts. There were also a number of different rocker profiles, mostly all were full reverse (to make up for the sidecut).

The R99 is going to be pretty similar to the Wailer 105, which was essentially me making my own personal ski, haha. And alot like a legend pro. The LP could be a little boardy and shaping has evolved a bit to help the skis feel more drifty without sacrificing any fall line stability, but the feel itself is going to be very similar.

Not sure if this is helpful, just trying to be honest!

So tell more about this FR free ride construction lotus 120 200cm.

Let me land a couple things and revert back in a couple days.

@marshall what flex are these lotii coming in?

In case this lost in the shuffle, Flex 3 for the 20x and flex 2.5 for the 19x versions.

Is the Blossom Race Room the old Nordica factory?

Sorry, missed this one. It is sort of the other way around. When Noridica started making skis in like 2003-ish, they commissioned this factory to make their high end stuff, like the FF9.1 / W105 and later on the Supercharger Blower and Girish. The factory still makes Nordica's WC and FIS skis (as well as for other companies too). At least to the best of my knowledge.

[shirk]

Congrats on a rad project Marshal.

Probably will pull the trigger on some R99's.