Bringing Back The Best: Lotii And Other Assorted Love Songs

[Marshal Olson]

Another vote for the 186cm BMT 94... such a great ski and shape.

agreed, haha!

[jdadour]

Hey all!

thanks for the kind words on the podcast. Super grateful to Jonathan for inviting me, and always keen to chat skis, haha!

regarding the ~95mm touring ski, thanks for all the opinions and thoughts. Very much confirms my thinking, which is 94-95mm width @ 185 & 178 straight tape length options.

@jdadour - if you are talking about the 112mm garbones, I REALLY think you should ski the FL113 in a 187, mounted at -9.5 or -10. For real. If you are talking about the OG 105mm… stay tuned!

Ha, as I was listening to the podcast this morning, I was looking at the FL113 at the same time. Had a feeling you would suggest that! looks like a great option, and will definitely give them a hard look. Also a fan of the bamboo in the core. Big fan of that core in my ON3Ps.

I was talking about the 105 or 112 Garbone with rocker, not the OG 105 full camber version. Ive got a pair of ~'09 105s with rocker (may have been the first version with rocker).

[tuco]

Just listened to the Gear 30 podcast, and it was great to hear more about how all this came together and more details on the project. I and many others have been bugging Moment for YEARS to make another batch of the Garbone/M1, but they won't listen. And I have basically given up on asking them anymore, because I have no faith they will ever make that ski again. Its such a shame, because they are incredible, and unlike any other ski I have clicked into. I have many pairs of skis, but my Garbones will only be taken from my COLD DEAD HANDS.

While listening to the podcast, I had a realization that maybe I've been asking the wrong people, and maybe Marshall could make our dreams come true...

Those skis were in great shape! Just be glad the Tuc's has very little interest in 105 waisted skis

On that note. Marshall, what are the prospects of the R120 being built in a 190/191/192 variation? That ski is right in my wheelhouse, just 186 too small.

[jdadour]

Those skis were in great shape! Just be glad the Tuc's has very little interest in 105 waisted skis

On that note. Marshall, what are the prospects of the R120 being built in a 190/191/192 variation? That ski is right in my wheelhouse, just 186 too small.

Tuco, you're the fucking man. I will be forever grateful for you shipping me those Garbones!

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[fool]

The podcast was great...except then it made me start thinking of getting a pair of 113s to compliment the R87s I already pulled the trigger on. I wasn't sure exactly what the 113s would ski like but then found this from Marshal a few pages back:

So the intent with the 113 shape was really to bring back the directional charger skis, just with a touch of modern shaping (specifically getting a little drift from the tail to balance the surfy tip) with a construction that is super super smooth riding in mega-hardpack, but charges chopped up pow as well as it planes up in untracked snow.

The FL113 in particular is utilizing a shape most similar to the old thirteens, just with a smoother riding tail -- but my hope is that folks who loved Monster 108s, RC112's, LPRs, OG katanas, etc etc will be immediately in love with this ski too, as a suitable modern replacement.

The C113 will be a little more surfy than the FL113, since it is a more backcountry/softsnow biased construction -- and it designed for those that love big radius directional surfy powder skis that are subtly rockered.

RC112s = Rossi RC 112s, right? Or DPS RPC112 w/ the grey topsheets? I haven’t skied the other skis you mentioned. I still have a DPS pair mounted with NTNs but am interested in C113s (alpine mounnted) for touring and fresh snow resort days, just curious a bit more on the ride as I’m not sure I’ve skied a ski with 40+m turn radius. I might not pull the trigger this season but perhaps next year...

Thanks again for an exciting project, Marshal!

[arild]

The podcast was great...except then it made me start thinking of getting a pair of 113s to compliment the R87s I already pulled the trigger on. I wasn't sure exactly what the 113s would ski like but then found this from Marshal a few pages back:



RC112s = Rossi RC 112s, right? Or DPS RPC112 w/ the grey topsheets? I haven’t skied the other skis you mentioned. I still have a DPS pair mounted with NTNs but am interested in C113s (alpine mounnted) for touring and fresh snow resort days, just curious a bit more on the ride as I’m not sure I’ve skied a ski with 40+m turn radius. I might not pull the trigger this season but perhaps next year...

Thanks again for an exciting project, Marshal!

Rossi RC112s, absolutely, not RPCs.

Fwiw, a 40m ski WILL turn, you just actively have to make it. Besides, there's the rocker factor, definitely facilitating turn initiation.

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

[gaijin]

FWIW, my r35m Renegades are too turny in March, when the tree lines in Japan become looser, less tight.

I’ve been wanting a 40+ for a really long time. It’ll still be just as surfy. That’s not the concern.

Sidecut is for groomers. Carving. And for hauling ass. And that’s when you want to arc.

Long radius sidecuts are still surfy, probably even more-so, it’s those stupid tight radius skis that fuck up my gig.


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[tuco]

Tuco, you're the fucking man. I will be forever grateful for you shipping me those Garbones!

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Haha,just fuckin w/ you. I knew those unicorns deserved to be under a mags feet when I found them and they went right where they were supposed too!
The fact they're cold dead hands skis for you makes it all the more worth it brother!

[Buster Highmen]

FWIW, my r35m Renegades are too turny in March, when the tree lines in Japan become looser, less tight.

I’ve been wanting a 40+ for a really long time. It’ll still be just as surfy. That’s not the concern.

Sidecut is for groomers. Carving. And for hauling ass. And that’s when you want to arc.

Long radius sidecuts are still surfy, probably even more-so, it’s those stupid tight radius skis that fuck up my gig.

53m radius all the way!

[arild]

53m radius all the way!

200 lotii?

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

[Marshal Olson]

Yew!

A few more design thoughts on radius... So the key thing to remember, alot like Shane's thought on the original spatulats, is that you just need a little mental floss.

So what big radius skis can't do is roll up on edge with a subtle movement of the ankle and carve a low/mid speed carve across the fall line. But... that isn't what this ski is for! Thats what 99mm daily drive skis are for!

What a big radius ski adds is much more about 3d snow (read, anything soft, not just pure pow).

Firstly, becuase there isn't a bunch of radius in the tips or tails, the ski won't hook or do weird things in variable snow, wind crust etc. They just slide through and cut far more clean.

Secondarily, with a big radius ski, you end up with a proportionally narrower tip and wider width underfoot than a ski with comparable surface area which again, helps with stability, and less likely to deflect as you ski through chopped up snow, especially when it is heavier denser snow.

Lastly, on a big radius ski, the ski releases and drifts turns much smooth and more predictably (especially in windbuff), because there isn't a bunch of sidecut underfoot trying to grab the snow.

Big radius skis certainly turn well, and when you are used to them, can make any turnshape you want, they just turn from a little bit different input than a 20m radius ski!

So yeah, skis in the 40m+ zone are not really for everyone, but they are something special for those that love how they ride!

Hope that helps

Lastly, the 46.3m is not the smallest radius on tap from HL... not is it the biggest! But it, in our view, the perfect sweet spot for a freeride ski. Cheers!

[arild]

Well put. And remember, the 113 in the 187 sports only just above a 41m radius.

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

[Buster Highmen]

200 lotii?

Yup, 2007 vintage.
I can turn these things as tight as I want due to the flat camber and the ultra light weight.

I hated shaped skis, too hooky, I could never get the balance on them.

Long live/love le grand radii.

[Marshal Olson]

long live le grande radii

love that. I should make t's with it on there... haha

[arild]

Long live/love le grand radii.

Sig worthy.

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

[Marshal Olson]

Marshall, what are the prospects of the R120 being built in a 190/191/192 variation? That ski is right in my wheelhouse, just 186 too small.

Yeah man, I am really wanting to add 3-4 molds to the Raceroom builds, but the price of those molds is too expensive at the moment for my size and our production volumes.... but I will add them as soon as its viable.

[tuco]

Yeah man, I am really wanting to add 3-4 molds to the Raceroom builds, but the price of those molds is too expensive at the moment for my size and our production volumes.... but I will add them as soon as its viable.

Cool.
I know we already went through this, but I'll probably keep buggin you about it

[Marshal Olson]

Cool.
I know we already went through this, but I'll probably keep buggin you about it

you probably should, I certainly want them too

[bry]

Just riffing, but if you sold about 200 pair among 150 people, maybe 125 people bought a pair and 25 bought three pair, maybe even more extreme where 10 people bought thirty forty or more pair.

Those 10-25 are price elastic/dentist gear junkies and you could crowdsource a chunk of your mold cost from them.

But I have no idea what a mold costs.

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[Marshal Olson]

Just riffing, but if you sold about 200 pair among 150 people, maybe 125 people bought a pair and 25 bought three pair, maybe even more extreme where 10 people bought thirty forty or more pair.

Those 10-25 are price elastic/dentist gear junkies and you could crowdsource a chunk of your mold cost from them.

But I have no idea what a mold costs.

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Yup, so each mold @ Telos needs ~10 pair to break even on the mold cost. The race stuff needs ~30 pair to break even. We got up to 18 pair on the comp R99 188, so like I said... getting close! I will check again after x-mas, as I will be placing preliminary orders to all the factories then.

So... for those interested in more Raceroom options... please rank which of the following you would be most keen to get on: 191 R120, 191 R108, 185 R108.

[Core Shot]

What a big radius ski adds is much more about 3d snow (read, anything soft, not just pure pow).

Firstly, becuase there isn't a bunch of radius in the tips or tails, the ski won't hook or do weird things in variable snow, wind crust etc. They just slide through and cut far more clean.

Secondarily, with a big radius ski, you end up with a proportionally narrower tip and wider width underfoot than a ski with comparable surface area which again, helps with stability, and less likely to deflect as you ski through chopped up snow, especially when it is heavier denser snow.

Lastly, on a big radius ski, the ski releases and drifts turns much smooth and more predictably (especially in windbuff), because there isn't a bunch of sidecut underfoot trying to grab the snow.
!

Brilliant!
That needs to be on your website

Precisely stated. I agree.

PS. “Vive le grand rayon” is more Française

[arild]

I guess my vote is moot, but here goes:

1) 19x 10x
2) 18x 10x
3) ....

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

[MagnificentUnicorn]

Yup, so each mold @ Telos needs ~10 pair to break even on the mold cost. The race stuff needs ~30 pair to break even. We got up to 18 pair on the comp R99 188, so like I said... getting close! I will check again after x-mas, as I will be placing preliminary orders to all the factories then.

So... for those interested in more Raceroom options... please rank which of the following you would be most keen to get on: 191 R120, 191 R108, 185 R108.

To be clear, the R99 188 comp build will be a loss?


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[Marshal Olson]

To be clear, the R99 188 comp build will be a loss?


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No, the factory had that mold already from back in the day, so there wasn't a setup cost.

[Sylvan]

Those 10-25 are price elastic/dentist gear junkies and you could crowdsource a chunk of your mold cost from them.
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Hafta admit, reading about price elasticities of demand on peak chair today brought a smile to my face. Thanks!

So... for those interested in more Raceroom options... please rank which of the following you would be most keen to get on: 191 R120, 191 R108, 185 R108.

1) 191 R120;
2) 191 R108;
3) weed.