Fuck Vail! Here's how.

[Bunion 2020]

If you do the FB thing search out the Park City Professional Ski Patrol, they are pretty responsive.

[connersw]

So does anyone with any inside sources know what the chance of them striking is (I assume high) and when that would be?

Seems low now. Joint statement announcing an agreement in principle:
https://www.parkrecord.com/news/park...ting-a-strike/

[Phall]

it would have been imminent if last nights meeting had not resulted in a deal, which it sounds like it did. Hopefully its a good deal. We'll know more tomorrow.

[powdork]

same day Vail replaces the GM at Stevens Pass

[mtnjam]

Another black eye for Vail:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/othe...cid=uxbndlbing

[TahoeJ]

Another black eye for Vail:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/othe...cid=uxbndlbing

I hate Vail as much as the next guy but not sure how this is really on them in any way.

[wolfelot]

If you don’t have a paid subscription like me you can still listen to this 13 min article in the WSJ.

Is it just me or does the semi robotic narrator voice make the story almost listen like Vail was able to review the article before publishing to make sure they didn’t look too bad and weigh in as needed? It feels like a slow pitch negative article. Basically there is no mention of Vail gutting HR, scraping established management, poor culture, impact on local housing, expensive crap food, low pay, overselling passes, huge cash reserves, falling stock price, etc. The article seems to conclude that Vail is having a bit of a tough time like everybody else, they are not really at fault and don’t need to do much as a company because it was just a bit busy over the holidays.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/people-...up-11642222802

[fastfred]

the wsj piece was terrible seemed mostly written by a PR firm
sure it is somewhat truthful but very one sided, they mentioned some of their "issues" but glanced over most of it as easy to solve temporary problems

the wsj knows the foundation is showing cracks but they are doing their best to vaguely point to the cracks, quickly blaming entitled over paid workers covid and the supply chain, after two years of repeating these same things over and over maybe it's time to start talking about what is really happening, the wsj isn't going to do that because it'd cause a panic and be a bit of a reality check for corporate america

[wolfelot]

Exactly. It feels like a PR piece written by someone who doesn’t ski and Vail got to weigh in on a few mild operational blips.

[NBABUCKS1]

here is the wsj article

https://archive.ph/Tckf5

[east or bust]

just came here to post the same thing,

had high hopes, but pretty garbage article

[Boomer28]

Super cursory article. Vail is a monopoly in flagrant violations of antitrust law on many fronts. That's the real story.

[schindlerpiste]

Not much that we can do, other than give negative reviews on internal "how did we do" emails, and don't renew your pass. Next year may be the first season since 2003 that I have not owned the Canyons season pass. Truly an epoch fail this season.

[TheK12]

Been following the epicliftlines IG account since it’s a train wreck that I can’t look away from. And while it’s good to point out where Vail is absolutely failing and being almost downright negligent with their business practices, I’m beginning to ask how it can be solved…

Let’s assume for a minute that things “could be fixed”? What’s the answer? there’s clearly demand for skiing right now. The cheap passes make it easier for sure (and certainly less expensive) but the numbers that show up at each hill are crazy. Especially when there is fresh snow. Do you let supply and demand solve it, where Day tickets top out over $200/day, season passes to single resorts go for $2k-$3k or more, depending on location? I’m sure getting rid of the mega pass will not drop day tickets as resorts have figured out they can get $200/day for a ticket. This has its own negative effects, creating an even more stratified clientele and almost ensuring regular families that don’t live near a ski area or work at ski area can afford to ski.

Is it more ski terrain? But this requires more capital and resources, which would probably drive up prices and still need to be staffed…

Is it restricted capacity? This would require reservation systems and would limit season pass sales, driving up prices again.

Is it keeping the mega passes and having more restrictions?

Anyway… just thoughts. Vail and Ikon definitely oversold their passes and it’s easy to point out where the failures are but how can things get better and yet still keep skiing from becoming unobtainable for regular families?




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[m2711c]

Free fresh hot cookies on powder days.

[SKIP IN7RO]

“If it’s inevitable, just relax and enjoy it.”

[ILOVE2SKI]

Super cursory article. Vail is a monopoly in flagrant violations of antitrust law on many fronts. That's the real story.

This is indeed one of the real stories. WSJ really dropped the ball. The 350 comments on the article (by far more than most articles ever receive) are probably 95% negative towards Vail. Sadly, when the .gov does nothing against the likes of Amazon and allows monopolies and big Tech like Google/FB to run amok, the chance that they would do anything in this situation is pretty much slim to none.

The masses are starting to take notice. It isn’t just us on the ski forums anymore. Even look at Facebook (I don’t have an account but people share screenshots) and people are PISSED! Especially here on the East Coast and NH skiers.

I’ve been shorting their stock off and on for awhile now. Nice dip lately. Hope it keeps dropping and goes the way of the ASC. “Too big to fail?” They said that about Sears too.

Bring back the good ol’ days with no Mega-passes and when The ski areas were all independently owned and operated.

[Canada1]

Not much that we can do, other than give negative reviews on internal "how did we do" emails, and don't renew your pass. Next year may be the first season since 2003 that I have not owned the Canyons season pass. Truly an epoch fail this season.

I think that sentiment is really prevalent in town. What is in sharp contrast is how much better deer valley is doing. PC opens late with two runs. Two weeks later, deer valley opens 8 chairs with 20 man made runs. PC still has the same two runs open. Deer Valley gets all of it's mountain open. PC still has lifts closed with ample snow. Yesterday I got stranded on Condor because Sun Peak wasn't open and I didn't want to go back through 30 minute lines at the orange bubble or gondola.

The gate thing seems like unenforced nonsense. Have you seen the number of tracks off of square top.

I'm having fun skiing, but if I paid to come here on a vacation, the quality has certainly plummeted with the new management. Employees are saying all of the managers hide in their offices all day while the lowest paid face the anger on the front line. We had a group of Visa kids over on Thanksgiving and they all talked about how horrible their new manager is, and how they are all trying to find other jobs. The old manager was forced out because you can't have people making wages outside the Vail model, so promote some angry insecure newbe to make sure no one returns next year. Then demand 10 hour days to further demoralize the few you've got. My teenager was making more flipping burgers over the summer than our patrollers starting wage was.(don't know with the new contract).
So, yeah. Deer Valley has done a better job than Vail here. And the difference is noticeable this year.

[camlax]

Deer Valley has done a better job than Vail here. And the difference is noticeable this year.

Admittedly I wasn't a Deer Valley fan when they took over Solitude but after working under Alterra for a few years I would say the difference is that Deer Valley prioritizes the guest experience. Alterra (and I'm guessing Vail/Epic) prioritize maximum profits by selling the cheapest pass and aren't nearly as worried about the experience of the individual guest because they know that people will continue to buy their pass just for the price or because its their only option.

[One (+) Sentence]

Glad to hear the PC ski patrol and Vail have reached an agreement.

Any idea when PC ski patrol will announce where they are donating all the money they received in their crowd funding campaign?

[My Pet Powder Goat]

they should put that money towards convincing patrollers from other Vail owned mountains to join the union. power in numbers.

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[One (+) Sentence]

they should put that money towards convincing patrollers from other Vail owned mountains to join the union. power in numbers.

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You mean, like hand it out to patrollers at other Vail owned resorts?

That isn’t what they said they were going to do with it in the event a strike was avoided.

[Canada1]

You mean, like hand it out to patrollers at other Vail owned resorts?

That isn’t what they said they were going to do with it in the event a strike was avoided.

They will do something appropriate. I have never met one of them I wouldn’t trust. They are a stand up group of people.

[jonesy]

[XavierD]

Down over 5% today. ~17% since start of actual skiing, I might not have been aggressive enough on my $MTN shorts.