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  1. #1
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    Dec 2003
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    replacement liner for Full Tilt Classic

    What replacement liners play well with a FT Classic shell?

    Intuition Pro Wrap, Pro Tongue?

    ZipFit Gara?

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    OEM is a wrap liner from intuition


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  4. #4
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    Apr 2006
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    Wasatch
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    Pro wrap FTW. More comfortable than power wrap in the arch and toe box


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    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


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  5. #5
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    Dec 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    Is Intuition's Pro Wrap stiffer than the Full Tilt version?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_eleven View Post
    Is Intuition's Pro Wrap stiffer than the Full Tilt version?
    similar


  7. #7
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    I’ve always used the basic Alpine (wrap) liner, for maximum comfort, customization and neutral flex influence. If your boot flexes as it should, which I contend the Full Tilt Classic does, why the the need to add stiffness via the liner?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    427
    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    I’ve always used the basic Alpine (wrap) liner, for maximum comfort, customization and neutral flex influence. If your boot flexes as it should, which I contend the Full Tilt Classic does, why the the need to add stiffness via the liner?
    As you state, the FT Classic flexes as it should. Liner "stiffness" is perhaps the wrong word, and "firmness" might be better. My preference is towards a firmer feel in the liner itself, which is what I meant. Having formerly skied in foamed liners with harder foam (Conformable) I find the stock FT liner somewhat "squishy." While softer foam might be more comfortable, a somewhat harder foam seems to give me a better feel for what the ski is doing.

    Does anyone have any experience with ZipFit liners in a FT Classic? Which one works well for you?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_eleven View Post
    As you state, the FT Classic flexes as it should. Liner "stiffness" is perhaps the wrong word, and "firmness" might be better. My preference is towards a firmer feel in the liner itself, which is what I meant. Having formerly skied in foamed liners with harder foam (Conformable) I find the stock FT liner somewhat "squishy." While softer foam might be more comfortable, a somewhat harder foam seems to give me a better feel for what the ski is doing.

    Does anyone have any experience with ZipFit liners in a FT Classic? Which one works well for you?
    I’ve never used FT branded liners, but my understanding is that like many companies, they spec an OEM version that includes a layer of “soft” generic foam on the inside, to optimize shop fit (and sell more boots) but which lacks that locked in feel which some of us appreciate. The Intuition Alpine liners that I use are just a uniform slab of high density Ultralon foam, which isn’t the plaster cast effect of an injected Foam or cork liner, but works well for me.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    45
    OP, have you considered Full Tilt's Pro Tongue liner?

    I'm currently running FT's Pro Tongue liner in my Drop Kick Pros (same shell as Classics) with 10 flex tongues. I too miss the denser/firmer intuition foam like I had in my Kryptons before, but I feel FT's Pro Tongue liner gets the job done for me. I was hesitant at first because the foam itself seemed just as soft as FT's Pro Wrap liners, but that plastic material they've added around the cuff and tongue seem to be the difference makers. The shape of my feet themselves are a really good fit for the Drop Kick shell, so the softer foam doesn't affect me much there. I also found the heel hold, without a doubt, is much better in the tongue liners than the FT's Pro Wraps.

    Still, I've got a pair of Intuition's (NOT Full Tilt's) Pro Wrap liner on the way as I like the way wrap liners flex in cabrio boots. Tongue liners tend to make the flex feel more like a 2 piece boot so I'm really hoping, once heat molded, that this is the combo for me.

  11. #11
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    Dec 2003
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    427
    Quote Originally Posted by CYJ View Post
    OP, have you considered Full Tilt's Pro Tongue liner?
    .... I've got a pair of Intuition's (NOT Full Tilt's) Pro Wrap liner on the way as I like the way wrap liners flex in cabrio boots. Tongue liners tend to make the flex feel more like a 2 piece boot so I'm really hoping, once heat molded, that this is the combo for me.
    Yes, I am considering this as well... One of my buds has ZipFits in his FT Classics and loves them, but says they ski differently than the wrap. He claims better feel and control, but as like you I have been leaning more towards a wrap liner due to the flex characteristics of the boot with the wrap.

    It would be great if you could let me know how the Intuition Pro Wrap compares to the FT Pro Tongue once you have a chance to ski it!

  12. #12
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    Mar 2018
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    45
    Quote Originally Posted by the_eleven View Post
    Yes, I am considering this as well... One of my buds has ZipFits in his FT Classics and loves them, but says they ski differently than the wrap. He claims better feel and control, but as like you I have been leaning more towards a wrap liner due to the flex characteristics of the boot with the wrap.

    It would be great if you could let me know how the Intuition Pro Wrap compares to the FT Pro Tongue once you have a chance to ski it!
    Sorry, but I ended up returning them before even trying to mold them. I THINK they could've worked, the 'lower' of the liner seems to slide in fine, but there is a lot of material over the instep and the cuff and I couldn't get a single buckle to close. Cuff height was also noticeably shorter in the rear which kinda worried me that it'd put me more upright, which I'm more of a forward leaning guy. Again, I think it could've worked with careful molding with a bootfitter, but tbh I've got a 2nd kid on the way soon and the tongue liner is working pretty damn well fit-wise that I can live with it's flex pattern. I also agree w your friend's statement about better feel in the tongues, as I feel you end up with more foam between your leg/feet and the shell in wraps vs in tongues.

    Anyways, it seems like the pro wrap liner seems to work for this guy (granted Intuition is one of his sponsors). I wouldn't let my experience deter you from trying out the pro wraps.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ddpgiYk1Dg

  13. #13
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    I've used the stock FT wraps, from the Performance ones to the Pros. I've also used Intuition Power Wraps, Pro Wraps and the Classic HD (I think maybe same as kootenayskier is referring to: it's full HD ultralon with no cuff wrap). It is my favorite Intuition wrap, *for me*, in the Classic shells. Recommending a liner as "the one" is not unlike recommending a boot to someone. Fit is critical. Ok, not at all the same thing, but there is enough of a dif in Intuitions: strobel sole or foam; wide toe box or same foam as rest of liner: those are big deals based on foot shape/shell shape.

    I have a narrow foot, high arch and instep so Intuitions are great at accommodating my high instep in the classic shell.

    I am now using Zipfit Gara HV's and so far I like them, but still working out the instep aspect. They feel good, but maybe a tad too much pressure there. However it's been colder than usual over the last several weeks and no way ZF's are close to Intuitions for warmth and I may be unnecessarily blaming colder than usual toes on instep pressure that is not really there. They are really quite different to the Intuitions, obviously. I have found that the midfoot and ankle hold is outstanding (an understatement: they are locked in place) and I really appreciate the "freedom" from there forward since after the midfoot it is a wool/thinsulate lined neoprene sock...it's stupid how comfortable it is but if you suffer from cold extremities like I do, well, it's colder.

    I'm also trying to figure out if they are stiffer than a power wrap. I've had a decent amount of time on them so far but not enough to have them dialed in 100%, but something is different enough in that regard that I notice it. I may try a really soft tongue to just to check it out. The ZF guys say they stiffen up the flex ~10 points but so does Intuition. Tongue liner vs wrap and construction are obvious factors here. I'd imagine easy to make the flex feel the same, I just have to muck around with dif tongues or just get used to it. It's not night and day, but it is different.

    The other thing I notice (and my set ups are all tanks to begin with) is the weight. If you've skied classics your whole life, adding close to a pound to each foot really is noticeable. Maybe not so much in the morning, but a long day and you know it.

    And one more thing. When ZF offered the full leather guts models the $450+ price tag made more sense to me. The neoprenes were about $100 less then. Now, other than a WC with leather (but not leather tongue) and only available in Sidewinder model, you have no choice but neoprene guts.

    Oh, and any classic shell user, do not even consider a Sidewinder ZF. That medial shank is no joke. There is zero flex from that side, even in the forward direction. It's the opposite of what kind of liner one would put in a cabrio, least of all one as surfy as the Classic.

    And one more, one more thing. You know how you are supposed to put a ZF on then slide it into the shell? I did that for a bit, but now have pulled out the laces and leave it in the shell (except to dry them), since, with Flexons, you can easily pull the tongue out of the way and just step right in. The laces serve no purpose to me when using them in these shells.
    Last edited by FlimFlamvanHam; 01-11-2022 at 02:49 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by skideeppow View Post
    That grip walk shit is ridiculous.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    427
    Lots of excellent info here; thanks!

    I wish there was a demo program for ZipFit liners; they cost more than my FT when new. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by FlimFlamvanHam View Post
    I have a narrow foot, high arch and instep so Intuitions are great at accommodating my high instep in the classic shell... I am now using Zipfit Gara HV's and so far I like them, but still working out the instep aspect. They feel good, but maybe a tad too much pressure there.
    Curious why the HV and not the regular Gara? I was thinking the HV Gara might not even fit in a Classic shell but that seems incorrect. In any event, perhaps taking a smidge of OmFit out of the offending part of the liner may decrease that pressure?

    At this point, are you thinking that the ZF are keepers, or are you considering a return to Intuition?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    North Vancouver
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    Because the ankle/throat of the Flexon is not particularly narrow and my ankles are. More importantly, however is that the difference between a LV and HV ZF is 10% (yes, 10%) more OMfit in the HV. As i said in another thread, ZF isn't making liners for shitty shell fits.

    Any prior ZF stealth model is same as current LV model.

    To best of my knowledge, the WC, Freeride LV and Gara LV all use identical amounts of OMfit, just like the Freeride HV and Gara HV use same amounts.

    As an aside, i know what i know about the sidewinder because I picked up a used set of those (unwittingly paying little attention to the sidewinder aspect) to try them out. They have full leather lining. Mercy, your foot is glued in place in those things. Maybe a bit too glued if that's possible, but I can see why the neoprene is a happy compromise as the foot hold is still incredible.

    The Corsa is their only liner that is truly made to fit in a crazy tight, plug, shell fit.

    I can't imagine trying to get these thinga and my feet into an overlap boot.

    There were quite a few new sets on ebay before xmas, but I get it. $475 Is insane, really, for a liner. Especially without the rich corinthian leather.

    And Chris at ZF (you call them and they are there to help, they really are good like that) said that tongue bladder is massive. If any pressure over the instep just work it with your fingers to get the OMfit into the main shin area where it will spread out.

    Even though not yet perfect, I believe they will be. They are def not as warm as Intuitions and I LOVE the weightlessness of Intuitions. I believe Intuitions are a great performing, affordable liner but the Zipfits are different. I won't be going back. The fact they will only get better with use is really appealing. You can move them to any shell. They change with you. The heel hold is amazing and my toes roam free. They are a premium product (at a very premium price).
    Last edited by FlimFlamvanHam; 01-11-2022 at 06:42 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Rossland BC
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    1,540
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimFlamvanHam View Post
    I've used the stock FT wraps, from the Performance ones to the Pros. I've also used Intuition Power Wraps, Pro Wraps and the Classic HD (I think maybe same as kootenayskier is referring to: it's full HD ultralon with no cuff wrap). It is my favorite Intuition wrap, *for me*, in the Classic shells. Recommending a liner as "the one" is not unlike recommending a boot to someone. Fit is critical. Ok, not at all the same thing, but there is enough of a dif in Intuitions: strobel sole or foam; wide toe box or same foam as rest of liner: those are big deals based on foot shape/shell shape.

    I have a narrow foot, high arch and instep so Intuitions are great at accommodating my high instep in the classic shell.

    I am now using Zipfit Gara HV's and so far I like them, but still working out the instep aspect. They feel good, but maybe a tad too much pressure there. However it's been colder than usual over the last several weeks and no way ZF's are close to Intuitions for warmth and I may be unnecessarily blaming colder than usual toes on instep pressure that is not really there. They are really quite different to the Intuitions, obviously. I have found that the midfoot and ankle hold is outstanding (an understatement: they are locked in place) and I really appreciate the "freedom" from there forward since after the midfoot it is a wool/thinsulate lined neoprene sock...it's stupid how comfortable it is but if you suffer from cold extremities like I do, well, it's colder.

    I'm also trying to figure out if they are stiffer than a power wrap. I've had a decent amount of time on them so far but not enough to have them dialed in 100%, but something is different enough in that regard that I notice it. I may try a really soft tongue to just to check it out. The ZF guys say they stiffen up the flex ~10 points but so does Intuition. Tongue liner vs wrap and construction are obvious factors here. I'd imagine easy to make the flex feel the same, I just have to muck around with dif tongues or just get used to it. It's not night and day, but it is different.

    The other thing I notice (and my set ups are all tanks to begin with) is the weight. If you've skied classics your whole life, adding close to a pound to each foot really is noticeable. Maybe not so much in the morning, but a long day and you know it.

    And one more thing. When ZF offered the full leather guts models the $450+ price tag made more sense to me. The neoprenes were about $100 less then. Now, other than a WC with leather (but not leather tongue) and only available in Sidewinder model, you have no choice but neoprene guts.

    Oh, and any classic shell user, do not even consider a Sidewinder ZF. That medial shank is no joke. There is zero flex from that side, even in the forward direction. It's the opposite of what kind of liner one would put in a cabrio, least of all one as surfy as the Classic.

    And one more, one more thing. You know how you are supposed to put a ZF on then slide it into the shell? I did that for a bit, but now have pulled out the laces and leave it in the shell (except to dry them), since, with Flexons, you can easily pull the tongue out of the way and just step right in. The laces serve no purpose to me when using them in these shells.
    The Intuition Classic HD and Alpine liners are pretty similar, in that they’re both basic wrap liners using just medium volume high density Ultralon foam, but the Alpines utilize a strobel sole, so slightly less vertical volume (8mm vs 12mm), which I need to fit my arch supporting footbeds.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Tahoe>Missoula>Fort Collins
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    i hate zipfits. that's all


  18. #18
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    Nov 2007
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    North Vancouver
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    i hate zipfits. that's all
    Elaborate. I can totally see how in an overlap, getting them and your foot in the shell might prove so challenging as to make them just too much of a PITA. But I would also have to think one would have to reach that conclusion after giving them a chance for a long time.

    And other than relative lack of warmth (compared to an Intuition) and the weight, both of which I assume would be a non issue for most, these are a pretty special product. Oh, and the price.

    Tell us why you hate them.

    And this is not directed at you, but on the subject of price. These are a much more rewarding investment than a new set of skis (to add to a bloated quiver or ski 4 times and then flog on GS...not that any here do that).

    There are a couple of decade old reviews on Blister. One from Joe Augusten and one from Marshal Olson. Both are very informative.
    Last edited by FlimFlamvanHam; 01-12-2022 at 10:09 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by skideeppow View Post
    That grip walk shit is ridiculous.

  19. #19
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    Nov 2007
    Location
    North Vancouver
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_eleven View Post
    I wish there was a demo program for ZipFit liners; they cost more than my FT when new. LOL
    ....they kinda do. It's a money back guarantee.

    Per their site: "We want to be sure you’re happy with your ZipFit liners. If for any reason the original purchaser is not completely satisfied with their purchase of ZipFit liners, we offer free returns for a refund or exchange within 30 days of your purchase, provided no alterations have been made to the liners and they show no more than 5 days of use."
    Quote Originally Posted by skideeppow View Post
    That grip walk shit is ridiculous.

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