22/23 gear rumors

[Benneke10]

I've been super curious about the new Faction La Machine Mini/Micro skis that are coming out next year. Anyone have an idea of what they might weigh in at? The 126mm La Machine weighs sub 1900g in 186 so I would imagine the skinnier ones will be quite light

[Lord Thomas]

Ben,

I think the weights you're looking for are a few pages back in this thread. Also, I pulled a clamp of one of my wife's La Machine 178's and it weighed 1,796g on my lab scale. Not psycho light but still pretty light. Almost exactly the same as her BMT 122 176's.

[Benneke10]

Thanks LT, looks like the La Machine series has the potential to be the successor to the BMT series. Can your wife provide any commentary on the ride characteristics of the La Machine vs BMT? I doubt Faction can make a light ski feel as nice as Volkl but I have high hopes for these skis.

[Robik]

Fondled today a pair of Nordicas Unleashed 108 186 cm. Interesting looking ski and would love to try them in 191 cm. Asked for the 191 length. Shop guy told me they aren’t available in Europe yet. Stumbled over the „Made in Ukraine“ sign. Didn’t dare to ask if they ever gonna get them at all. So sad.

Factory is in Mukachevo, Transcarpathia region, very close to Hungarian and Slovakian borders. That part hasn't been affected by shelling or active military actions, but as most manufacturing and logistics in Ukraine, it's on deep hold. Like Covid affecting supply chain wasn't enough...

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Lord Thomas]

We just picked up the La Machines a few weeks ago and haven't had the chance to get them on the hill yet. Looks like we will be going up for our last lift served day on Saturday for her own personal demo day that will include the La Machines, BMT 122's and L138's! I guess her commentary will only apply to shitty spring conditions. If you happen to know of anyone who needs a pair of 182 Lotus 138 Pure3 Spoons (purple ones) let me know. I picked those up for her just prior to getting the white ones from Anthony [which will be going up Saturday]. I'm really curious about the Factions as well as it looks like they may be the successors to the BMT line.

[kid-kapow]

I've been a bit curious to learn more about BC's decision to rework the Atris into a slightly narrower ski - or the be honest, I've been a bit puzzled by that decision. Powder 7's take on the rework makes a ton of sense though (long story short - they are refining it into a ski that should appeal even more broadly in the 100-105mm range), and I'd thought sharing is caring and all that - re link above.

[rod9301]

Will the hoji free 130 stay the same?

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

[kid-kapow]

hm, I just noticed that the 22/23 Nocta is labeled as having r21, not r26 as in years past. So it seems to have been redesigned as well. Interesting. Can't find any pics of the center of the ski where the dimensions other than waist width and length is specified.

[Sargentdrufus]

hm, I just noticed that the 22/23 Nocta is labeled as having r21, not r26 as in years past. So it seems to have been redesigned as well. Interesting. Can't find any pics of the center of the ski where the dimensions other than waist width and length is specified.

You can adjust a ski's radius without changing the listed dimensions of a ski, my guess is this is what is happening. The waist width is still 122, maybe the tip got wider and they tightened the radius that way, but my guess is they worked some other shaping magic and tighten the radius without changing the dimensions of the ski.

They did similar magic going from the Atris 1.0 to the 2.0 the dimensions didn't "change" as far as what was on paper, or what they'd print on the ski but the radius changed from 18m to 20m between the first and second iteration of the ski

[SnakeMagnet]

Deeper sidecut underfoot and more subtle near the taper points be the likeliest way a same-dims ski has a tighter radius. It's more or less what Volkl's fellated themselves over ever since the M102/Kendo 88 came out. Maybe BC is just not advertising that?

[waxoff]

hm, I just noticed that the 22/23 Nocta is labeled as having r21, not r26 as in years past. So it seems to have been redesigned as well. Interesting. Can't find any pics of the center of the ski where the dimensions other than waist width and length is specified.

They did the very same to the last iteration of Sevun II, i.e. printed 21 m instead of previous years 25 m, this without changes to neither dimensions nor shape. TBH I would be surprised to learn about dimensional/shape changes to the Nocta without BC announcing the changes.

I suppose you can view (and market) the sidecut radius in a few different ways. Either you look only at the sections with actual sidecut, in- or outside of running length, or you include portions of tapered sections and/or effective length to the equation and present some sort of average. Not to mention how to state a single sidecut radius number when multi radius designs and/or RES portions are part of a design. And at the end of the day it's up to Crows how they regard theirs, and also to change viewpoints should they feel like it. As in the Sevun case, they've done just that before.

[kid-kapow]

You can adjust a ski's radius without changing the listed dimensions of a ski, my guess is this is what is happening. The waist width is still 122, maybe the tip got wider and they tightened the radius that way, but my guess is they worked some other shaping magic and tighten the radius without changing the dimensions of the ski.

yeah, I do get that the stated dimensions can remain the same - either through the marketing department doing us all a favor and fucking it up by stating something marketable instead of what the actual dimensions are, or by changing the start/end points of the taper to retain the same stated geometry (aka longer tapered section with a tighter radius).

That being said, we do not know what the stated dimensions are yet, so it is kinda hard to speculate on what differences (if any) they have made. A tighter radius (to make the ski more accessible to newb skiers on edge on harder snow, like what they did with the Anima) could indicate a stiffer flex, more splay in the final parts of the ski and more taper to retain their lower swing weight. Or everything can remain the same, but the marketing people decided that a change was in order (on paper) to shift more units. Or how they calculated the radius changed on their full rocker skis. Who knows, your guess is as good as mine.

They did similar magic going from the Atris 1.0 to the 2.0 the dimensions didn't "change" as far as what was on paper, or what they'd print on the ski but the radius changed from 18m to 20m between the first and second iteration of the ski

I am not sure what constitutes Atris 1.0 and 2.0, but assuming the change was made between the 17/18 (137-107-128 splay 68 mm / 46 mm r18) and 18/19 ( 138.5-107.5-125.7 mm splay 62.5 mm / 38 mm r20) versions of the ski are not the same - either on paper or as measured by Blister. Yeah, not dramatic changes to say the least, but I am guessing that the taper lines and flex pattern changed as well - so I would not be surprised if the ski differently.

TBH I would be surprised to learn about dimensional/shape changes to the Nocta without BC announcing the changes.

Time will tell - they have yet to officially release the new lineup to the public, but where the focus thus far has been on the Atris and narrower skis.

edit: after talking to a shop the ski remains unchanged besides the graphic. The 21m thingy remains unexplained, but lets face it - it doesn't really matter all that much

[gaijin]

Well it kinda does.

It doesn’t really matter for one ski, but it does matter for the entire populace of people who think shorter radius skis are easier in soft/3D snow.

And that misconception is where this entire false marketing campaign begins.

Can we just start teaching intermediates that short radius skis suck in soft snow instead of lying about the ski’s radius?

The entire industry has been lying to the general public for decades since “powder skis” even became their own genre.

They never tried to have the sidecut conversation again. They stuck to the parabolic message. “A short radius is easier to turn.”

No, it’s easier to trigger a turn. But it’s harder to finish a turn.

“But we’re trying to sell a One Ski Quiver.”

/and there it is.

[iriponsnow]

^this

[gregL]

Well it kinda does.

It doesn’t really matter for one ski, but it does matter for the entire populace of people who think shorter radius skis are easier in soft/3D snow.

And that misconception is where this entire false marketing campaign begins.

Can we just start teaching intermediates that short radius skis suck in soft snow instead of lying about the ski’s radius?

The entire industry has been lying to the general public for decades since “powder skis” even became their own genre.

They never tried to have the sidecut conversation again. They stuck to the parabolic message. “A short radius is easier to turn.”

No, it’s easier to trigger a turn. But it’s harder to finish a turn.

“But we’re trying to sell a One Ski Quiver.”

/and there it is.

For all we know, they did nothing to the ski and just changed the printed radius on the topsheet - no one ever checks, anyway.

[kid-kapow]

according to a local shop who reached out to BC to get an updated tech sheet for the 22/23 collection skis (as the catalogue supposedly is shait as they are trying too hard to be hip), the Nocta remains identical next sesason outside of the change in graphic. So either a typo or a marketing department decision of re-packaging. Who knows.

And do not get me wrong, I do not like turny skis. A reworked Nocta with a slightly more active sidecut on harder surfaces would possibly be a good thing, as it would not be introduced if it compromised its performance at speed and the shape should be plenty loose in soft snow regardless of what its sidecut number is. BC seem to have made that work with the current Anima, still solid at mach schnell, but more nimble at slower speeds in spite of being stiffer and having wider shovels/tails (though, that is all other people saying so - I have not tried either generation).

[gregL]

according to a local shop who reached out to BC to get an updated tech sheet for the 22/23 collection skis (as the catalogue supposedly is shait as they are trying too hard to be hip), the Nocta remains identical next sesason outside of the change in graphic.

I have digital spec sheets for both years at my disposal, both directly from Black Crows NA - the specs are identical except for sidecut. In order to do that, they would have to pull back one or both of the contact points, and IMO there was nothing wrong with the original . . .

[kid-kapow]

I have digital spec sheets for both years at my disposal, both directly from Black Crows NA - the specs are identical except for sidecut. In order to do that, they would have to pull back one or both of the contact points, and IMO there was nothing wrong with the original . . .

oh, so it remains to be seen then. There is no way both the tech specs and the labeling on the ski is wrong - something has changed, either the marketing or the ski.

Perhaps the "feels like a 21m"-talking point got converted through the magic of marketing to a "skis like a 21m ski which is easier to market than a 26m ski, so let's just relabel it as full rocker + 26m equals cambered as 21 no?". Or not.

dammit - I am trying not to order a Nocta and an outgoing Atris here.

[SoVT Joey]

Direct from black crows, there is no change on the nocta and the spec on the tail is a misprint. I was reading this and we had discussed a few pages back to already. And decided to call them because I was going to buy another nocta as well if they were going to shorten this radius. It already skis fairly short.

[Stuntmonkey]

Only changes to the atris was the width getting smaller.....correct? idgaf about sidecut.....I just follow gaijan was saying that short radius sucks in the majority.

[SoVT Joey]

Only changes to the atris was the width getting smaller.....correct? idgaf about sidecut.....I just follow gaijan was saying that short radius sucks in the majority.

i know the waist by 3mm to 105 and I think the tail got a little narrower too for easier release. But I think overall construction is the same material.

[kid-kapow]

Direct from black crows, there is no change on the nocta and the spec on the tail is a misprint. I was reading this and we had discussed a few pages back to already. And decided to call them because I was going to buy another nocta as well if they were going to shorten this radius. It already skis fairly short.

ah, thanks for the clarification. My bad if it had already been discussed.

yeah, I remember you stating in another post having swapped the 185 for a 190. If you have had any time on the latter yet, how do they compare?

Only changes to the atris was the width getting smaller.....correct? idgaf about sidecut.....I just follow gaijan was saying that short radius sucks in the majority.

go one page back and it will be answered by pressing a magic link

[Stuntmonkey]

go one page back and it will be answered by pressing a magic link

Oh shit. Nice. Sounds like they have addressed everything I didn't like about the Atris. I've got some 21/22 Captis to try out this year, but I am still searching for that ~100ish fuck-around ski as my happy place is wider and more charging yet playful.

[kid-kapow]

Sounds like they have addressed everything I didn't like about the Atris.

out of curiosity - what did you not like about the current/out going version?

[SoVT Joey]

ah, thanks for the clarification. My bad if it had already been discussed.

yeah, I remember you stating in another post having swapped the 185 for a 190. If you have had any time on the latter yet, how do they compare?



go one page back and it will be answered by pressing a magic link

The 185 just felt short in the tails, I could of probably mounted it at +1 and corrected a lot of the feeling. Just had that give out feeling once or twice when I got back and felt unsupportive. I went to the 190 and mounted on the line and it skis awesome. I was worried it would lose its lose-ness, but it didn’t, if they would make a 196 and I lived on the west coast again, I would buy it for sure at 5’10” 180.

i did take jesters off my 185 and put kingpins on it before I sold them, and they were awesome to tour on as well. I have a 190 now inserted for a duke pt and a jester. I have been tempted to pick up another 190 and put a plum guide on them. Issues.


and no not your bad at all, I’m glad it got brought up again because I was getting worried as well, as I have been staring at the 2023 pics for months. So I appreciate you saving me $600 and not impulse ordering another today. Lol