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  1. #26
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    Mar 2008
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    when the low tech binding 1st came out people were skiing 67mm under foot skis and the boots were pretty soft

    now days people ski 130mm wide skis with much bigger boots

    more ski width and bigger boots = more force which i think pushes the envelope of the design especially for a bigger skier
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  2. #27
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    Who said anything about a piste? And I sold my Guides years ago. I like those U springs you think are so dangerous.

    .

    "You can tell the difference between Plum Guides and Dynafit Verticals when you ski them back to back on firm snow."

    I duno, but someone wrote firm snow right there ^^

    Plums used to break toe pieces which didnt impress me much
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    313
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    "You can tell the difference between Plum Guides and Dynafit Verticals when you ski them back to back on firm snow."

    I duno, but someone wrote firm snow right there ^^

    Plums used to break toe pieces which didnt impress me much
    Read then post. Firm does not mean piste. Plenty of firm conditions to be found in the backcountry. Your anecdotal experience with Plums from 10 years ago is fairly meaningless. Not defending Plum, just sayingÖ

  4. #29
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    Mar 2008
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    well thats just your opinion man

    and actualy I am pretty sure you are defending plum
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,226
    Quote Originally Posted by cat in january View Post
    Dynafit used to recommend maximum ski widths for some of their bindings. Not an engineer, but I often wondered if it had more to do with the forces a wide ski puts on a narrow lightweight mount than the bindings ability to drive the ski.
    Iíd definitely say itís more about the holding force of the toe clamp in ski mode. Wider ski equals more lever arm equals more torque to prerelease when on edge on firm snow. As long as your toes arenít locked on the down, the clamp force on the toe pins is way way less than the screw force into the ski.

    I believe WildSnow did a toe clamp test and Dynafit was always near the bottom, significantly lower than MTN or Plum. ATK was somewhere in the middle.

  6. #31
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    https://www.wildsnow.com/18803/compa...er-g3-dynafit/

    is it the toe letting go or the heel letting go in a pre-release ? running a tech binding I always found it was the heel but I don't weigh much and I just run them much as I do a alpine binding

    actualy a whole lot to unpack in that ^^ artical and its the first time I've noticed lou using the term " safety release binding " I just assumed that was a good thing
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,226

    Tech Binder Mount Width vs Ski Width and Other Considerations

    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    https://www.wildsnow.com/18803/compa...er-g3-dynafit/

    is it the toe letting go or the heel letting go in a pre-release ? running a tech binding I always found it was the heel but I don't weigh much and I just run them much as I do a alpine binding

    actualy a whole lot to unpack in that ^^ artical and its the first time I've noticed lou using the term " safety release binding " I just assumed that was a good thing
    From the article
    ďNewcomers to WildSnow might wonder why the heck weíre going to the trouble to measure this? Two reasons. Most importantly, we have a theory that a certain kind of accidental binding release (pre-release!) can occur due to the tech binding toe wings opening while downhill skiing due to vibration and turning force. Also, in our opinion you can enhance your safety in avalanche terrain by ski touring uphill with bindings that donít require locking the toe unless youíre doing stressful maneuvers such as steep kickturns. In our field testing, the bindings that rate highest for toe-jaw opening force can in many situations indeed be toured without the toe locked. And again, we theorize they are less prone to pre-release. ď

    Iíve had a tech binding prerelease from the toe twisting out on the Z axis (looking from the front of the ski down the edge imagine a circular twisting motion- consider X-axis is left right looking at the top of the ski and Y is up/down against/with gravity). I believe higher clamping forces would have prevented this. I was pushing my 200+ lbs hard on an edge on 112 waist skis on steep ice with toes in ski mode. I didnít feel the heel budge at all, it felt entirely like the toe was ripped out of the boot pin holes by lever arm forces due to edge pressure.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Not Brooklyn
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    XXX-er is 100% correct that early Plums absolutely had issues with toe wings breaking. So did the early ATKs, which were were sold in small numbers in North America branded as La Sportiva something or other. Both brands resolved whatever was causing the issue years ago.

  9. #34
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    And back then ^^ I think it was hard to find replacement parts which was not so cool, I would say toe pieces are not the place to use aluminium

    but then just about every Tech binding has or had issues which is why I stick with 2 pair of Verticals for now cuz they never had much in the way of issues, 2 sets are pretty redundant and its easy to grab a heel piece to take a ski trip somewhere
    Last edited by XXX-er; 11-27-2021 at 03:21 PM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    7B Idaho
    Posts
    516
    I still have a set of ST Verticals and I do love them, but they are on a set of skis that doesn't get used much. They are very durable but I have also noticed the same wiggly heel as ISBD - I don't pre-release out of them even in firm conditions on a 90 waist ski, but I prefer the snug feel of Kreuspitze GT heels. I still use old school TLT steel toes on my "main" touring skis and they work the same as they did on their first day ~15y ago. Such a good toe even if a skosh heavy by todays UL aluminum toe standards.

    Last season I mostly ran Speed Radicals and they probably ski about the same as Verticals but I did come to prefer the flip heel lifters even though I'm used to my race bindings with just one height. It is just a trace faster to flick than the turn. And to preemptively respond to XXXer, none exploded, that was earlier generation, these are fine.

    Also the stack height on the Verticals is amazingly high, although sometimes I think this helps and doesn't hinder, I'm still not sure.

    Pretty much every binding has had failures early in their release so this is a poor reason to avoid a company or product. Examples: ATK toes as noted above, old Plum guide toes, Dynafit Radical heels (early versions), Dynafit SSL/Lowtech toes (cracking at the mount screws), Kingpin toes, Salomon just recalled some MTNs, etc etc. News flash, skiing/mountaineering/climbing/etc gear doesn't last forever. Check your gear and buy products that aren't in their first season of release.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
    Posts
    3,597
    I tried to find anything about Salomon mtn recall and i couldn't.

    Do you have any information?

    Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Location
    SLC
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    999
    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    I tried to find anything about Salomon mtn recall and i couldn't.

    Do you have any information?

    Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk
    There were some rumblings about Salomon asking dealers to return their shipments of MTN bindings this summer, I guess they had a bad batch. I don't think any of the affected bindings went to consumers. There was a Totally Deep podcast where they said Salomon had alerted them of the issue before the bindings even arrived in September.

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