Solar panels

[neufox47]

I work at a solar/power installer in NW WA


If roofspace isn't an issue, we can have systems payback be down to 5 yrs, usually around 7 though. If you're roof is at all getting close to needing to be replaced and you are set about doing solar, replace it with a metal roof. Fuck your HOA, a standing seam metal roof and solar add a shitload of value to your house since the combined system is basically mainentance free for the 25yr life of the panels. Banks work to finance both if thats at all an issue.


In general, it's not worth it at all to have a battery system in this state. Power is out for a week or 2, maybe, a year. Usually in winter when prodcution is poor. price breakdown is...

15k+ for a 13kwh proprietary battery system installed. Lasts for a day or 2 without full charge. Clients that don't have a generator on site lose power autonomy on day 3 or 4. But then you have a sleek wall of power setup you can big dick with your 'friends' about.

A 50a generator outlet and 7kw generator installed is 5k. fuel to run it for a day is $10-20. Sure its loud, but it also reliably works until the powers back on and can be plumbed into municipal LP/nat gas.


Also, as a company, we have not had reliable shipments of batteries from our RENO based supplier. We've had 2 customers worth of batteries received in over a year. I think we currently stand at ~40 systems waiting for batteries (at 2+ units a system). Many customers wanting to work with us solely for the backup, and getting sold solar as an aside.


All that aside, its been a sick pro deal to have living off grid. Also its a great way to get a residential electrical license if you can

Have you guys done any installs where you put in a charging plug for the battery so that you can charge the battery with a small gas generator if needed? I thought hard about that option. My solar company said they just started doing some of those, but us was going to be another $1,000+ once factoring in a generator and for the few times the solar can’t keep up with usage when the power is off.

[neufox47]

We live in a house that had solar installed in 2007. It's an asphalt shingle roof. 37 100W panels. They are so inefficient, we're gonna replace the system when we replace the roof (next summer)? But there's no leaks in the roof.

My parents had a 37kW system put on their house in Maine this year. Total cost after tax credits was somewhere a little south of $15K.

If I can ever find somebody that will build it, I'm also going to build a garage and put solar panels on a house in Vermont. It's got perfect exposure, no tree issues and we only have electric heat there. I'd build it myself but I'm too old to sheath the roof.

Batteries are way too expensive and are really only good for about 18 hours in the winter. For the price of 1 Tesla Powerwall, we're installing a Generac for disaster-proofing.

My ROI will be fairly short (electricity from the grid is very expensive in VT and NH) and the energy will be cleaner.

Checkout the Generac battery. Up to 18kwh in one cabinet, it will recharge from the panels. Make sure you account for the cost of propane for the Generac generator. That was the tipping point for me. My neighbor burned through 400 gallons of propane in 7 or 8 days with a 22kw system. Since then he only runs the generator when he “needs” power. But it burns 2-4 gallons per hour when running. Also if your utility puts you on time of use the battery will save you money when not used as backup.

Here in CA a lot of generator installers are now regretting they didn’t get a battery instead. My battery should pay for itself in 10 years.

[::: :::]

One thing I never got clarity on...how long do batteries last?
Presumably they are good for years?

[XXX-er]

I stayed at a Hostel on Haida Gwai where buddy was using old Truck batteries to store his solar power, he pulled the batteries off the dead battery core pallet at Napa auto parts so they were free. He said as long as here were no dead cells he rejuvenated them with a 35$ a battery re-conditioner he got on line from China, he said China was way ahead of NA when it came to solar power. With a Sat internet setup he is completely off grid in the middle of downtown Queen Charlotte city he was a very smart very eclectic dude

Buddy said the problem with batteries systems at least on Haida Gwai was that people ran them down too far because they designed a system to work in summer but farther north in winter the less daylight & the sun not getting high enough in the sky before hitting a mountain ... the batteries fail and he would be talking about remote weather stations and the like

[neufox47]

One thing I never got clarity on...how long do batteries last?
Presumably they are good for years?

10 years is our warranty or 45,000 kWh of throughput or 2,500 full charge to empty cycles. Supposedly they may last 50% longer than the warranty although at a diminished capacity.

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Checkout the Generac battery. Up to 18kwh in one cabinet, it will recharge from the panels. Make sure you account for the cost of propane for the Generac generator. That was the tipping point for me. My neighbor burned through 400 gallons of propane in 7 or 8 days with a 22kw system. Since then he only runs the generator when he “needs” power. But it burns 2-4 gallons per hour when running. Also if your utility puts you on time of use the battery will save you money when not used as backup.

Here in CA a lot of generator installers are now regretting they didn’t get a battery instead. My battery should pay for itself in 10 years.

I hear you.

But here's our reality...

We don't lose power all that often so I don't expect to run the generator all that much. But if we lose power for an extended period (remember the ice storm of '96?) in the winter, I don't care how much it costs to keep the heat on. We are installing an 18kW Generac that is spec'ed to burn 1.5 gallons per hour as long as we don't decide to run all 4 burners on the stove, the dryer, and vacuum 8 hours per day. We use heat pumps for heat and they are relatively low draw compared to baseboard electric.

Again, my issue is that batteries will only last 18-24 hours given our heating requirements and that isn't much peace of mind. In the summer, I could care less how long the electricity is out and would turn off the generator.

[neufox47]

1.5 is idle, 3 gallon is max. But I understand and I wouldn’t want to run heat in VT off a solar / battery system either! I don’t imagine the production is too good even on a sunny 9 hour long day.


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[frorider]

For those of us in snow zones (think 6 ft drifts on the roof, 20+ ft off the ground), roof panels ain’t a good call but a small carport with a south facing set of panels would work well & would be low enough I could remove snow without too much effort. On a sunny day it would probably sluff off naturally depending on pitch.

But online searches don’t seem to yield much in terms of credible suppliers of steel framed solar carport kits.

[Garbowski]

Someone told me this was pretty accurate. I'm just past the 20 year payoff line in Seattle.
https://sunroof.withgoogle.com/

I definitely want to build a small off the grid rig, just to learn.

[jackstraw]

Slightly of course here, but those mentioning Generac take a look at Kohler. They're much better. And most people oversize there standby units as if they want to continue running every electric appliance during a temporary power outage. It's truly ridiculous.

[ötzi]

Yeah I learned the oversized generator business the hard way on the old house. The reality is there's a natural tendency to conserve when you're on generator power, you need les than you'd think. Old house had 40 kw this one has 11. But it's easy to go down the oversizing rabbit hole because doubling the size doesn't double the cost and bigger starts to seem like a bargain even though it's actually just a waste of money.

Modern Generators, like outboards, are all pretty good. The biggest differentiator is the local service and support network. Around here that's Generac hands down. YMMV.

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

Agree. My electrician called me the other day and said, "I need an answer right now. I can get you an 18kW Generac today from my local supplier if you say go. Otherwise, we're looking at 3-4 months to get something." There is a place in MA that does Kohler but it's the only place I saw in New England (granted, I didn't search too long).

[jackstraw]

That's impressive he was able to get a generator for you. My guess is someone canceled on him. They are part of the supply shitshow...generac and kohler. I sell the things. We have well over a million $ pre sold and they're trickling in randomly.

Power Products is one of the Kohler guys in MA and ME. They service and sell retail as well as wholesale. Their generator is definitely better, but they are a strange company to do business with. We sell Generac 10-1 over them. Generac is a monster and a whore.

[MyNameIsAugustWest]

^^ Pretty sure that's who I saw doing Kohler.

Not picky about how or why I got the generator but no doubt you are correct. 99% sure it came from Rockingham Electric.