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  1. #851
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Seattle
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    24,583
    "We do not have a reservation system to ski this season."

    I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me there's significant wiggle room in this statement. They didn't say that there will definitively NOT be reservations this season, just that they weren't going to start the season with reservations. I'll grant that it sucks for them to change course midstream.

  2. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    "We do not have a reservation system to ski this season."

    I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me there's significant wiggle room in this statement. They didn't say that there will definitively NOT be reservations this season, just that they weren't going to start the season with reservations. I'll grant that it sucks for them to change course midstream.
    It takes a master philologist beyond my mien to distinguish the differences in those two statements.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  3. #853
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    Oct 2003
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    It takes a master philologist beyond my mien to distinguish the differences in those two statements.
    If they'd said "we will not..." then it's definitive. Got to think like Bill Clinton here...

  4. #854
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    Seattle
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    2,498
    Quote Originally Posted by Buster Highmen View Post
    It takes a master philologist beyond my mien to distinguish the differences in those two statements.
    By saying "do not" vs "will not", they create some wiggle room. One is a statement of current conditions, the other is a future promise. Their comment on reservations did not contain any forward looking statements or promises for the season.

    While changing to reservations is definitely lame, someone would have a very difficult time proving false advertising in court based on their statement.

  5. #855
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    Sep 2001
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    Maybe that's so, but I think there's an argument that it _is_ a misrepresentation of a season pass at the time of sale given the "this season" vernacular, which does imply a future state.

    I'll make the same argument I made last year. There is a well defined Comfortable Carrying Capacity (CCC) associated to an SUP and it's a misrepresentation of a season pass to sell more passes than the CCC. The analogy is that a concessionaire takes over a public funded stadium and sells more seasons tickets than seats available.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  6. #856
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    Oct 2003
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    Seattle
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    No question it's sleazy as hell.

  7. #857
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Keep Tacoma Feared
    Posts
    3,325
    I assume Crystal is implementing the reservation system at the request of at least a portion of their customers. I don't personally like reservations, but I don't see a consumer protection case going anywhere when the customer is split on whether they like it or not. Now, Stevens Pass is a different story so bring on the AG and class action suits there.

    And ya, yesterday was Hokkaido good
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  8. #858
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    inpdx
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    17,280
    Lotta happy people in those wiggles

  9. #859
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    At Work
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    2,843
    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    I assume Crystal is implementing the reservation system at the request of at least a portion of their customers. I don't personally like reservations, but I don't see a consumer protection case going anywhere when the customer is split on whether they like it or not. Now, Stevens Pass is a different story so bring on the AG and class action suits there.
    I think the way to really stick it to Crystal would be for a lot of customers who can show they were adversely affected by the reservation system (i.e. pass holders and/or A-lot parking pass holders who can show that they were unable to use their pass due to the reservation system) to file claims in Washington State Small Claims Court to recoup all or part of their pass costs. If Crystal Mountain doesn't send a representative there would be a default judgement against them. The claims would all be filed in Pierce County, so Crystal is gonna have to send representatives into Tacoma to fight a spate of claims or start refunding a bunch of pass money.

    Filing a bigger court action and retaining lawyers and then soliciting enough people who can actually show harm is a lot of work for a marginal chance of success.

    The structure of small claims court is quite favorable to plaintiffs in a situation like this where they bought a product and the contemporaneous marketing indicated it was an "unlimited" pass that is now having limits placed on it and the plaintiff being able to recoup some or all of their money – and the structure of small claims court doesn't even matter if Crystal doesn't send people to defend the case since the default judgement goes to the plaintiff in those cases. Filing fees are 35-50$ plus a fee to a process server, so not even that expensive to recoup quite a bit of money.

  10. #860
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    8,852
    I usually come to this thread for stoke and local conditions updates.

    Now I get to learn about how to sue my mountains.

    Sad.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  11. #861
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    32,750
    Quote Originally Posted by ptavv View Post
    I think the way to really stick it to Crystal would be for a lot of customers who can show they were adversely affected by the reservation system (i.e. pass holders and/or A-lot parking pass holders who can show that they were unable to use their pass due to the reservation system) to file claims in Washington State Small Claims Court to recoup all or part of their pass costs. If Crystal Mountain doesn't send a representative there would be a default judgement against them. The claims would all be filed in Pierce County, so Crystal is gonna have to send representatives into Tacoma to fight a spate of claims or start refunding a bunch of pass money.

    Filing a bigger court action and retaining lawyers and then soliciting enough people who can actually show harm is a lot of work for a marginal chance of success.

    The structure of small claims court is quite favorable to plaintiffs in a situation like this where they bought a product and the contemporaneous marketing indicated it was an "unlimited" pass that is now having limits placed on it and the plaintiff being able to recoup some or all of their money and the structure of small claims court doesn't even matter if Crystal doesn't send people to defend the case since the default judgement goes to the plaintiff in those cases. Filing fees are 35-50$ plus a fee to a process server, so not even that expensive to recoup quite a bit of money.
    Their arbitration clauses were very well worded when we looked at them.

    They had the benefit of it being covid based numbers restrictions last year.. This time around it's solely on over selling passes/new products so that might be a game changer together with their clear statement of no restrictions being in place for 21/22 and the deferral window.

    Forcing corporations to waive arbitration by the cost and hassle of a mass of small claims actions is a new thing and costly, difficult to coordinate properly to turn into a class. Thanks to tort reform!
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  12. #862
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    32,750
    Quote Originally Posted by AK47bp View Post
    I usually come to this thread for stoke and local conditions updates.

    Now I get to learn about how to sue my mountains.

    Sad.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I think it's quite clear they are considered their mountains now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  13. #863
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    232
    For how incredibly sick the skiing has been everywhere (like, from sea level to summits), there's a lot of complaining here! Maybe try hiking for turns....

  14. #864
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    Sep 2001
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    Northway filling in.

    Maybe Penny Dogs won't be a rock dodge this year.
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    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
    >>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<

  15. #865
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    der town, WA
    Posts
    136
    Should put this in the skintrack stoke thread but you guys seem pretty desperate.

    As above
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    So Below
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    Been a December to remember.

    Happy New Years!

  16. #866
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Imaginationland
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    4,473
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    I think it's quite clear they are considered their mountains now.
    Wrong pronouns eh?

  17. #867
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    8,852
    Hyak skied great today. Limited terrain but beautiful day to get the kid out for first time this year. Great snow.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  18. #868
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,821
    Quote Originally Posted by d542east View Post
    Been a December to remember.

    Happy New Years!
    Hell yea it has been!

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  19. #869
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    8,852
    Love that 2nd shot^


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  20. #870
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    50 miles E of Paradise
    Posts
    12,671
    ^^ +1. Gorgeous shot!

  21. #871
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    burblandia
    Posts
    353
    Honeymoon may be over but this week at xtal has truly been a one week stretch to remember with the cold temps, phenomenal snow and ski on lifts all week long.

    Would love to hit rewind and do it again.
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    Once more tomorrow.
    Our great works of human enterprise will fade away with time. The mountain will endure. ~nps

  22. #872
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    522

    PNW 2021/2022 Season! La Nia ahead!

    Top quality turns around the pass this weekend - opening the Bryant on Friday was a highlight!





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Let us so live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry - Mark Twain

  23. #873
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    255
    big dumpers incoming sunday-monday

  24. #874
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    251
    Pretty big totals coming & lots of wind. Monday likely to be a bit limited but have 3 days to play up there.
    Be a' lookin for some mags in this pow frenzy at the big C ! Ski ya there.

  25. #875
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Portland by way of Bozeman
    Posts
    4,017
    Just saw the Ikon email and Id like to say in the nicest possible way; fuck Crystal and fuck Ikon for the newly implemented reservations. Those shitty, shifty, lying fucks!

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