softshell jacket (yes, again)

[Lindahl]

Again on the topic: do you use softshell jacket also in deep/fresh snow, freeriding? i understand the improved breathability, especially needed on the way up. How do you manage it on the way down, especially when snow might get into or over the jacket, or you are knee-deep? i read there are people loving Softshell and never going back to hardshell.
Do you pack both soft and hardshell or just softshell? of hardshell only if you know it will snow?
i am asking because from time to time i fall down and snow gets into anywhere, so i would be concerned of using my new softshell on the way down.

Depends on how cold. In Colorado, fresh snow almost always means cold temps, so no hardshell ever

[hafjell]

The real problem with Gore is that they're overcommitted by necessity to the idea that a jacket needs to be waterproof to an extreme. As a result, they won't ever breathe well. If they step away from the idea of a waterproof jacket, then I'd probably pay attention. Until then, it doesn't make much sense to me in a skiing jacket (maybe resorts, but even then I prefer Neoshell or similar).

100% to all of this.

[rfconroy]

Picked up the BD Dawn Patrol a couple of weeks back, and have a few tours and resort days in it thus far.

Overall pretty impressed.

Of the three jackets Ive been touring in over the past 18 months: Ferosi, San Jaun, and Dawn Patrol - The DP falls solidly in the middle. The San Jaun is almost like a hardshell, but still has some nice features. Ferosi is great because it backs really small and is light, but offers little insulation - which makes it great for spring days. Thing that sucks about the ferosi is lack of skin pockets internal...

BD DP is a slightly heavier material weight to the Ferosi, easy to tour in, and still has a bunch of really nice pockets including skin pockets internally. I even used it this weekend in some pretty balmy PNW sun, and it still was able to breath fairly well.

One caveat to the Dawn Patrol - Some folks dont like the "freeride" fit, so keep in mind its a tad looser than other outer layers.

[GoSlowGoFar]

I just wish the Dawn Patrol didn’t have that fleece backer fabric. Then it’d be about perfect, until that changes its the Gamma LT Hoody for the win.

[Sargentdrufus]

I have the BD Dawn Patrol (non hybrid) version and love it. Has enough wind and water resistance that it has been my only shell for 2 seasons of touring in the Wasatch (~80ntours/year)

If it is in the teens or single digits I'll wear a heavier base and add a lightweight midlayer underneath, I have a couple different weight baselayers and generally (anything above 20°F) I go a baselayer and just the Dawn Patrol jacket it is rare if I use a mid layer.

[Micol]

Depends on how cold. In Colorado, fresh snow almost always means cold temps, so no hardshell ever

lol this is not correct

totally depends on denier of face fabric, face fabric yarn weave pattern, and brand/type of membrane....then types of layers, elevation of terrain.....

perhaps you jest

[Lindahl]

lol this is not correct

totally depends on denier of face fabric, face fabric yarn weave pattern, and brand/type of membrane....then types of layers, elevation of terrain.....

perhaps you jest

I've never needed a hardshell when touring in Colorado, even in the worst of storms. A light synthetic puffy has always been enough if things get gnarly. It's cold when it snows there. So you never really have the thick wet sloppy conditions where your bodyheat can't keep a softshell like the Ferrosi dry enough to not feel wet.

[Micol]

I've never needed a hardshell when touring in Colorado, even in the worst of storms. A light synthetic puffy has always been enough if things get gnarly. It's cold when it snows there. So you never really have the thick wet sloppy conditions where your bodyheat can't keep a softshell like the Ferrosi dry enough to not feel wet.

imo, if one is staying overnight (planned or unplanned) best not to limit gear one may need to stay alive.

[Lindahl]

imo, if one is staying overnight (planned or unplanned) best not to limit gear one may need to stay alive.

Hardshell and even hardshell plus down puffy that most bring won't do much in an overnight. If that's a concern for a particular trip, I bring one of these, which weighs less and generally packs smaller than a combo of thick enough down puffy and hardshell:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...--X8iUnG7S__RB

[XXX-er]

more layers are the drama-free solution

[MiddleOfNight]

I love these threads, to see how differently people solve similar problems.

For me, hard shells with side zips and main zippers are pretty dang versatile. It's easy enough to manage keeping the right amount of wind/snow/sweat out, and enough heat in (even on the move). Don't usually need the jacket on the up-go. I guess sometimes, on really stormy days and windy ridges or peaks.

Throw on the gore jacket for the down-go; warmth and durability and crashes.

Fleece layers and puffy as needed. I stumbled across an icebreaker helix thin insulating jacket, which I like a lot for frigid tours.

I'm in the Elks (CO), this is my kit for most/all days. I personally haven't seen a compelling case to change over to softshells - it looks like a solution to a problem I don't have.

[Westcoaster]

Hardshell and even hardshell plus down puffy that most bring won't do much in an overnight. If that's a concern for a particular trip, I bring one of these, which weighs less and generally packs smaller than a combo of thick enough down puffy and hardshell:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...--X8iUnG7S__RB

bothy bags are incredible safety pieces that somehow have zero american penetration. Never understood it.

[rfconroy]

more layers are the drama-free solution

Like an onion or ogre?

[Micol]

bothy bags are incredible safety pieces that somehow have zero american penetration. Never understood it.

dang...but could be due to that name.... like near freudian slip for body bag ~ bothy bag..... kinda worrisome , but, looks like interesting product none-the-less wonder if it can be had in softshell

[Micol]

Hardshell and even hardshell plus down puffy that most bring won't do much in an overnight. If that's a concern for a particular trip, I bring one of these, which weighs less and generally packs smaller than a combo of thick enough down puffy and hardshell:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...--X8iUnG7S__RB

i dont know...ive slept in all down outside, hardshell could be like the bivvy to keep it from saturating, OR down booties with bottom tread for the win

[hafjell]

If that's a concern for a particular trip, I bring one of these, which weighs less and generally packs smaller than a combo of thick enough down puffy and hardshell:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...--X8iUnG7S__RB

"Size (vacuum packed): 13 x 11 x 5cm." What's the pack size?

[Micol]

^ bag seems pretty cool

[Lindahl]

"Size (vacuum packed): 13 x 11 x 5cm." What's the pack size?

A bit bigger than the size of a VHS tape. Fits pretty well at the bottom of a backpack. They have a compact trauma blanket thats a bit smaller and lighter but you're getting less protection from it.

[Lindahl]

I love these threads, to see how differently people solve similar problems.

For me, hard shells with side zips and main zippers are pretty dang versatile. It's easy enough to manage keeping the right amount of wind/snow/sweat out, and enough heat in (even on the move). Don't usually need the jacket on the up-go. I guess sometimes, on really stormy days and windy ridges or peaks.

Throw on the gore jacket for the down-go; warmth and durability and crashes.

Fleece layers and puffy as needed. I stumbled across an icebreaker helix thin insulating jacket, which I like a lot for frigid tours.

I'm in the Elks (CO), this is my kit for most/all days. I personally haven't seen a compelling case to change over to softshells - it looks like a solution to a problem I don't have.

Yeah, I find hardshells much sweatier and harder to keep my temp just right. Lots more comfortable with the softshell and no fussing with layers. Throw it on and go.

[Lindahl]

bothy bags are incredible safety pieces that somehow have zero american penetration. Never understood it.

Yeah, bothy bags are pretty neat if you are gonna be hanging out for a while. This is only a bit bigger and brings a lot of insulation. Like a 32 degree sleeping bag.

[bonewrenched]

Yeah I'm in the hot sweaty mess category as well, so agree strokes for folks, but also get that no one size fits all conditions.

If you like the dawn patrol in theory but not in fit, check out the BD Cirque. Fits slimmer, no frills, and can still stash skins inside.

[MiddleOfNight]

Yeah, I find hardshells much sweatier and harder to keep my temp just right. Lots more comfortable with the softshell and no fussing with layers. Throw it on and go.

My body regulates temp pretty well, maybe that has something to do with it. Or maybe I just don't know what I'm missing. I'll watch for something on gear swap.

That bag looks interesting, thanks for sharing. I may see if they ship to US.
Ah, 'warmth of 5.5 Togs' .. excellent. A mere 5 Togs would simply not do.

[mr_pretzel]

Are there any new players here? I want something I can ski down in instead of a houdini.

Heavy synthetic belay park for shit hitting the fan + a softshell is becoming my favorite setup.

[Westcoaster]

Are there any new players here? I want something I can ski down in instead of a houdini.

Heavy synthetic belay park for shit hitting the fan + a softshell is becoming my favorite setup.

At least for CA, the nuclei fl is windproof, has dump pockets which fit skins, and fits over layers without being huge. It works perfectly as a descent layer if you're not tree skiing.